porsche 911 engine into beetle possible or not.

lbdl18887 · Post by **lbdl18887** » Tue Aug 08, 2000 1:15 pm

can anybody help me. is it possible to fit a 911 porsche engine into a beetle? if so any helpful hints would be cool.ie which beetle should i use, how much work is involved.has anybody done it? please let me know if you think i'm mad.

bartman · Post by **bartman** » Tue Aug 08, 2000 2:56 pm

do you have an engine?i've never tried this but as you probably know,just about anything's possible with vw's(big-block,etc).porsche motors are expensive to build and fix.if you have one,try it.be aware that 200 reliable hp is possible from a vw motor if you really know your sh*t.it's fun when you blow someone away and they say,"damn,boy!watchoo got in that thang? a porsche motor?"and you tell them it's a vw.a camero weighs what,about 3600lbs?200hp in a bug is like having a 400hp camero.a lotta those muscle car dudes don't realize this.anyway,IMO you should stick with vw power.the money you will save will buy a lot of speed;o)...bartman

[This message has been edited by SB1303s (edited 08-17-2000).]

bren · Post by **bren** » Wed Aug 09, 2000 8:05 am

which model bug you choose is pretty much irrelevant, because you need to cut away pretty much the whole back end of the bug and fabricate new panels that will fit around the engine as it is much longer than a T1...the width of the rear end in later bugs is more suited though.

you must also be aware that the porsche 6cyl engine weighs more than double that of the T1 engine, so handling becomes very weird! you need to think about that bug gearbox too.. it wont handle all that power in stock form, so serious strengthening will be required, or a porsche 'box putting in its place.. if you take the porsche box route, youll need to cut away even more of the rear bodywork, as the porsche box puts the engine even further back...

LOTS of work involved, but as they say, nothings impossible.. this was a trick used in european rallycross way back in the late 70's early 80's.. but most of those cars were tube chassis'ed racers...

not for the faint hearted! dont attempt it unless you think you can see the project through.

SuperBeetle71 · Post by **SuperBeetle71** » Wed Aug 09, 2000 3:39 pm

I have seen alot of 911/VW conversions, however all take alot of work and are not for the novice. Also, you must use a porsche 911 gearbox, usually a 5 speed. Strengthening a VW tranny is a very very difficult and expensive job that will probably not last very long anyway. To install a porsche tranny, you will need to modify the whole mounting fork. However, it can be done, and you'll probably kick some ass and shame alot of rice rockets and camaro's alike. Oh, important! If you do this, you must put disc brakes up front to stop all this power safely!

Later,
Cody
'71 superbeetle

SB1303se · Post by **SB1303se** » Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:13 pm

Just as much work,but you could put a Corvair flat 6 in too ,and its air cooled.

Callook72 · Post by **Callook72** » Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:33 am

Why put a porsche or any other engine in your bug!!??!! Like you said above, to smoke a camaro or stang and then show them that you have a VW motor powering your VW will blow them away!! I was talking to this guy in a chat room a few days ago and he said that he was re-building his 70s something camaro and it was gonna take like 100k plus...WHY??? Why do that when a friend of mine took his 68 bug and went all out. Got body straight/new paint & exterior goodies, all new interior, chassis rebuild, tires/rims/disc brakes, tranny and built a 1835 engine for around 9 grand!! AND THATS WHY I LOVE VOLKSWAGENS!!!!

Superman · Post by **Superman** » Sun Sep 03, 2000 4:04 pm

Yes it can be fitted but it would be TOO big and TOO heavy. Go with a Type IV!

Spyke · Post by **Spyke** » Thu Sep 21, 2000 11:33 pm

Hmm...

How about trashing the back seat and going the mid-engined route? Solves the rear weight bias problem anyway. Probably need a tube frame chassis, but I wonder if putting it in the middle would really be THAT much harder than hanging it out the back. (Assuming you were aiming for a fully functional vehicle, as opposed to "Yeah, I shoehorned it in there, but the handling's kind of strange and I haven't gotten the cooling and stuff worked out yet")

914's came with mid-mounted sixes so you know all the drivetrain hardware's available... for a price!

Sharkey · Post by **Sharkey** » Fri Sep 22, 2000 9:53 pm

Converting a Bug to mid-engine would be even more expensive than retrofitting a non-VW motor such as a 911 or Mazda rotary transplant. You better be an engineer cuz messing with an independent rear suspension isn't a simple matter of "cut and weld".

Why even bother? Porsche engines are moderately expensive to buy used, and cost a small fortune to rebuild. For the same money, you could build up a Berg motor that would compete on par with the Porsche motor-- and it wouldn't require any extensive modifications or re-engineering.

Spyke · Post by **Spyke** » Sat Sep 23, 2000 5:00 am

Well, now that you mention it, I AM an engineer.

If you're going with a tube framed chassis, it's somewhat trivial which way the engine is oriented. Granted, the post didn't originally start out asking about tube framed cars, but if you REALLY want a six cylinder bug, I think that would be an awesome way to do it. (And the only way to do it if you want to end up with a nice all-around performance car)

As for WHY do it, as compared to a Berg engine, well, we could discuss that forever. The cop out answer is to say "if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand".

But seriously, I'm no expert on either engine, but I find it very hard to believe the Berg engine will last as long, be as dependable, and have as broad a power band. Not to mention the Porsche six would bolt right up to the mid-engined transaxle you stole from a 914/6, complete with clutch and starter, etc. The Porsche trans would also be a better choice for a high-output engine, Berg or Porsche, right? But again, this is a rather trivial part of building a car like this.

This would certainly not be a project for someone worried about their budget. For someone who wants to construct a unique car and wants a Bug body, it could be done. Keep in mind there are some very talented people out there with very rich friends who can afford strange toys. (As proof; one 356 owner built a four cylinder engine out of a six, by removing the center cylinders. Worked fine, cost a BUNCH. Why'd he do it? In part because he could)

My guess is, somewhere, someone's already done this. In a drag car perhaps?

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:37 am

You're right it has been done, in Australia ( of course) http://www.acay.com.au/~astro/main.htm
and I don't think it looks super complex. Just add money and mix

On a total tangent, why not install a Subaru (EJ20T) engine? thats what I am doing!! they are cheap ($1500 engine and computer) and develope around 165~220Kw depending on year model, they are also only 76cm rocker cover to rocker cover, so not to much material needs to be removed

worth considering!

Callook72 · Post by **Callook72** » Sun Sep 24, 2000 11:18 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Beam:
WoW! That's the ugliest 56 oval I've ever seen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Jim. Chopping up a bug, rather it be the roof line or the engine bay to fit something bigger gives it a nasty look in my opinion. The ONLY thing I would ever consider doing to my 71 Super (if I was to even really want to do, which I dont) Is to put a water-cooled VW engine into, Likes Supermans bug. I might be pulling away "the heart" of the bug that makes it a "bug", but at least Its another VW engine. Just my 2 cents.

------------------
Callook72

Spyke · Post by **Spyke** » Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:41 pm

Hmmm...

I gotta say this is NOT what I had in mind.

Aside from the fact I don't like chopped bugs (the side windows never look right), and I don't like cars with exposed engines, and I think it looks like a mistake when the tires don't fit under the fenders, ah, well, yeah, aside from that, ah... while I respect the work someone put in to this... I hate it.

Kinda supports my point though. The best way to do it would be ditch the back seat and go mid-engined.

I put some thought into doing this to a Ghia, but eventually decided what I would end up trying to build is already available for sale. It's called a Boxster.

So I guess I'll stick a Type IV engine into the Ghia and call it a day.

kevinlh@cnr.colostate.edu · Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:16 pm

I put a Subaru 2.2 litre Legacy engine in my Squareback. Details were sketchy, so I answered alot of my own questions after the swap was done.

See: www.cnr.colostate.edu/~kevinlh/type3_co ... subaru.htm

for my details. Can't recommend the other options for a SB. Kevin