Opinion for this combo

[profe]

Great forum. I have learnt a lot with your opinions.

I would like to hear your suggestions of my combo but first I think I must give some informations.
My base is a vanagon with the original DJ engine -not cat., 112 CV supossed max power-. Everything is OEM stock parts. I owned since 4 years ago -speedometer was 125.000 km- and maintenace has been done always by myself.
Just after I bougthed I installed new water pump, sparks, filters -air, oil and petrol-, all oil pressure, temp and level water senders and of course oil and liquid cooler. Some small hoses and oil/water cooler has been removed by new ones
Regular maintenaince: good 20-50 oil with OEM Mahle filter each 7500 km.
At 160.000 km I put a new head gasket kits as a typical leak on head -right one-. New piston rings and small valve grinding job. Since then, I use only organic liquid
Now -at 195.000 km- piston4 overheated . Never red light in the panel while running but sometimes the fan was on -specially on hills-. No leaks water -but I have to refill water a bit: mayb 300 cc every 1500 km-

I have removed everything and I found following defaults:
- Piston/cilynder 4 with marks -vertical axis-
- Just a bit on carbon in several valve seats. Even some carbon over inlet manifolds. Obviusly valves didn't seat completely.
- Maximun height lobes differences 0,1 mm between them
- Bearings with a small bright differences -not warried becouse I will fit news all of them-
- Small bits of galvanic corrosion on heads.
Rest of the parts I have checked and measured -micrometer if needed- and are in good conditions. Not wasted crank, no marks in the oil pump, no marks in the rest pistons.
I has checked the thermostate in my kitchen with a boiler and it worked. I will fit a new one anyway. I will send the radiator to a specialist: he will to check and clean or he will suggest buying a new one. I will buy a new BEHR one if needed.

Now I want to repair the van but increasing perfomances at the same time. In this point is where I asked for your opinions -aplogized for the large introdution-
What do you thing about following:
- New Gowesty forged 96.5 piston kit (without barrels). I can buy them also rings and copper head gasket. Any other option you have experience for the rings & head gasket?. I still will use my original barrels. Tolerances to machined?
- New AMC heads -just the casting-
- New original exhaust valves, maybe inlet too. Do I need valve grinding job if they are fitting with the new heads?. Another good quality option for the valves?
- New ARP rod bolts set
- New dual-thrust rod, cam and crank bearing sets
- New CB Maxipump1 oil pump
- New Victor Reinz kit. May be don't fit the pulley seal they served in the kit instead a Sabo one, right?
- And my major doubt: new camshaft. CB 2280, CB 2252 or the Gowesty?. This last one will cost me 250 $ (yes, 150 $ plus core charge 100 $ -I am in Europe, no sense sending mine to them-). I guess I will need buying the camgear with CB options. I heard something about noise work and poor idle. Please, opinons?. I read tencet -congratulations, you are great- and others about this cams but -if I am not wrong- they improved some other parts I want to keep stock: exhaust system, fuel injection, distributor, ...
I want to use the van for normal street uses. Trips on holidays and small daily use. I prefer torque instead of maximun power. Never will go over 4300 rpm -current speed 120 km/h-. I am now building my own furniture equipment so van is going to increase weight soon.
Please let me know your opinions/suggestions/experiencies about this. It will be great for me order every new parts now and install them on christmas
Thanks in advance... and Merry christmas!

P.D.: Sorry for my poor english

[joop]

Merry X-mas all,

Welkome Profe

I think stock DJ pistons are great! Have seen many pistons with more than 350000km on them and they looked better then aircooled pistons after 50000km. I have very bad experience with wiseco's pistons, but this was due to thin skirts. It's not likely these have the same flaws.
I think after tencent's researsch, a CB2280 is good cam. I ordered one myself for a DH engine. My own DJ has a 292 hydro cam (RO667,7 cam wich comes with german camgear) it revs easely to 6000rpm. When I was on route du solei last summer it was fun to ride! But a little too peaky for transporter.
I've heard the stock iggy's vacuum pod is often bad. I use a 3D prorammable ignition myself with the MV distributor dual webers and gpl.
Air in the coolingsystem is one of the biggest enemies of the WBX and can cause overheating in one spot of the engine.... If you have an eary stile cooling I would convert it to the later one.
Stock exhaust system is OK, I use it with a VW sharan muffler.
My transporter conrods has new vw stretchbolts an I use 5W40 oil stock oil "warmer" + external oilcooler and melling steel pump.

Go for it and post some pics

cheers Joop

[Joe vw]

Make sure the rods are fully rebuilt and resized don't just replace the bolts.
I agree on the CB 2280 cam these engines need that extra lift.
While the stock exhaust "works" a design like Tencents is a huge improvment.
I would do a perfomance valve job, match port the intakes, get your injectors tested, and make sure the engine is in correct mixture tune with a wideband.
Test that your ignition timing specs out.

[profe]

Thanks for answering

I also heard something about problems with Gowesty first design of pistons. They say this has been solved with new design. I don't know if your experience was with first design or with the neweer ones. Can you tell me more about this?

I am not sure but maybe expansion coefficient is not the same for piston forged than cast ones. Even do the thermal transmision coefficient changes too. So I asked for tolerances to mechanized the old "small" barrels to fit with the new forged pistons. Can you tell me if your problems where for this reason?. May be using glp instead petrol affects this point?. Please I will thank any information else.

I don't think I will be over 5000 rpm with the van never
And to be honest, I don't think I am ready to make distributor experiments. Don't know any DIY clear about this kind of experiencies in vanagon.
My intention is not open again the engine at least in at least 150.000 km more!. And I am looking for useful and fiability engine. I don't need a peaky power band.
Maybe asking too much?

[profe]

Thanks for your suggestions.

Make sure the rods are fully rebuilt and resized don't just replace the bolts.

I did not mention it but I was in my mind what you say

I agree on the CB 2280 cam these engines need that extra lift.
While the stock exhaust "works" a design like Tencents is a huge improvment.

A lot of lovers appears when is mentioned CB 2280!. I think I will be the next one.
I appreciate very much Tencents job and explanations. Sure his exhaust is great. The only points could be price and noise. Is it smooth or noisier?. I don't care if sounds a bit more ... but just a bit. Any information of these points?. I can't remember if I saw it pricered.

I would do a perfomance valve job, match port the intakes, get your injectors tested, and make sure the engine is in correct mixture tune with a wideband.
Test that your ignition timing specs out.

You are right again. I think injections are OK. But I can checked them. By the way, how can I modify mixture in a Bosch L-Jetronic based system easily?. The only way I know is playing with the resort preload of potenciometer resistors. And is not a big margin ... And, is this real neccesary?. I thought it wasn't.
Any help?
I t

[tencentlife]

Hi Profe,

I read your PM, but since it will interest others I'll answer your questions here. At the moment my exhaust system is in the able hands of Mike at Rocky Mountain Westy in Colorado. We are working together to get the exhaust system produced at his manufacturing shop, where he already makes excellent quality bumpers and other Vanagon/Westy accessories and Subaru conversions. Up 'til now I have been building them by hand but it takes too much time that way. The price will end up being higher but the improvement will be making it in all stainless steel tubing. We think it will come in at around US$1500, mas o menos. Just like I offer now, it will be a complete kit including catalyst, muffler, all hardware and gaskets, and a custom adaptable muffler/cat support system, that allows different components to be used there. Systems without catalyst, and/or with quieter mufflers will be available, the price will vary. At the moment I couldn't tell you the details on those options because there is still a lot for us to figure out. We are aiming to have a run of kits ready for sale in the next two or three months.

Anyone who is interested can PM me and leave their email address or ask to be PM'ed when there is more news. If you leave your email I promise we will only use it to contact you regarding this product, no one else will ever see it.

As for the 2280 cam, I think you have read my thoughts on that, it is a great bus cam with big mid-range torque and a good pull right up to the Vanagon FI's redline, the horsepower peaks at 4600rpm, torque peaks at 3250 or so. I advise adding .060" shims under the stock waterboxer dual springs to avoid valve float at about 5krpm. Use the hydro lifters CB sells, they are the OEM lifters and break in well with CB's cams. I have over a dozen engines in use with this combo and no cam/lifter wear problems provided a 2krpm for 20 minutes break-in is done using an SL-rated oil with sufficient ZDDP content. Idle is a bit rougher with this cam but the VW FI systems work fine with it.

Gotta go, I may say more about mixture modification when I have time.

Cheers, Merry Christmas!

[profe]

Thanks tencet

I like the option of the exhaust so I'll be waiting for news in the forum. Anyway I will repair my engine sooner ... and probably I'll be almost crank after it so no problem with waiting months.

Anyone who is interested can PM me and leave their email address or ask to be PM'ed when there is more news. If you leave your email I promise we will only use it to contact you regarding this product, no one else will ever see it.

Sorry I forgot send you my email. No problem more folks see your answers. Educate us, please!. By the way, I think I will order you soon your oil cooler kit. For my point of view, it's a must if I upgrade the engine. I'll send you a pm.

As for the 2280 cam, I think you have read my thoughts on that, it is a great bus cam with big mid-range torque and a good pull right up to the Vanagon FI's redline, the horsepower peaks at 4600rpm, torque peaks at 3250 or so. I advise adding .060" shims under the stock waterboxer dual springs to avoid valve float at about 5krpm. Use the hydro lifters CB sells, they are the OEM lifters and break in well with CB's cams. I have over a dozen engines in use with this combo and no cam/lifter wear problems provided a 2krpm for 20 minutes break-in is done using an SL-rated oil with sufficient ZDDP content. Idle is a bit rougher with this cam but the VW FI systems work fine with it.

What's is suffient ZDDP for you?. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought best dial is using the a high quality oil but same aged as engine data. So I have always used -since owner- REPSOL 20-50 and Mahle filter, changing them each 7.500 km. I know it's not "new formula" -it say is mineral- but was good 20 years ago. But I couldn't found any value of ZDDP in the oil. If you won't recomain this one, which one/s do you think are needed if fitting a more agressive cam as CB (considering they are easily find in Europe?

Thanks in advance

[AMBROSIA]

I was a little conservative and fitted a cb 2252 in my 2.1 dj.
I've been most impressed with the amount of torque produced and it does happily rev to 6000 rpm.
Now it's coupled with 1.25 ratio rockers it has even more torque.
I would say the exhaust is well worth doing as there are good gains to be made over the stock system.
I looked at possibly fitting 2.2 pistons and liners but was a little concerned about potential loss of compression ratio.
Last time i checked the engine produced 122hp on the dyno and considering i'm using dual carbs rather than FI it's still an extra 10hp over stock.

[profe]

I think I was wrong in this point at the begining of the post:

New Gowesty forged 96.5 piston kit (without barrels)

I want to keep oem crankshaft so maximun bore piston from Gowesty must be 96 mm. Anybody can confirm this? (must be because rod lengh & distance pin to top piston combination)

By other hand, as much as read in forums, as much I doubt. Which or the following sentences are right:

- CR vanagon 2.1 DJ is 10.5:1 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=333954
- CR vanagon 2.1 DJ is 8.64:1http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=105
- JE Pistons 96 mm http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=105

I want to improve performances of my engine but I need to keep CR. In Spain are two petrols: 95 octanes or 98 octanes so I don't think 10:1 CR is a problem for my van (never heard detonation). Please, experts give some light with CR from differents pistons....

I was a little conservative and fitted a cb 2252 in my 2.1 dj.

May be you get more performances becouse you use the carbs. I know that digijet/digifant inyection is the 2º stage of bosch -first they have the k-jetronic/ke-jetronic- so when it appears I guess Bosch has more in mind emissions and simplicity than response. Ambrosia, do you still use oem mahle pistons and lifters?.

[tencentlife]

- CR vanagon 2.1 DJ is 10.5:1
- CR vanagon 2.1 DJ is 8.64:1
- JE Pistons 96 mm

European 2.1 DJ is called 10.5:1 but actually calculates to about a 10.3:1 CR (small difference)
USA 2.1 MV is about 8.66:1 CR

Both those engines use the same camshaft. More engine data here:

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/VehicleSpec ... engine.htm

I think you're right, the GoWesty kit you would be able to use with the stock 2.1 crank would be their 96mm set. But you should email them to confirm.

I know that digijet/digifant inyection is the 2º stage of bosch -first they have the k-jetronic/ke-jetronic- so when it appears I guess Bosch has more in mind emissions and simplicity than response.

Digijet/Digifant are digital evolutions from the L-jet system in use on 2.0liter Type 4 engines and many other European cars. They work very differently from the K-jet systems. But you're right that the design is for emissions and simplicity, which makes them pretty reliable if the parts and wiring are in good condition but there isn't much room for tuning outside of the factory parameters. The Digijet offers more room for tuning because ignition and fuel are different systems. With Digifant, every change you might make to load signal at the AFM to change fuel also changes timing response, so you often end up working against yourself. The most effective fuel tuning mod I have found to work on Digifant is to override the fuel mixture by using a wideband controller to feed false signal into the lambda input.

I wouldn't know anything about engine oils available in Europe, you have different standards organisations there, but the amounts of Z and P you want to see for good cam and lifter life in two-valve flat-tappet engines are generally agreed to be about 0.12 to 0.16%. The best way to find these values is by finding someones Virgin Oil Analysis (VOA; see www.BobistheOilGuy.com) or download the manufacturer's product data sheets (which often aren't terribly accurate!).

[profe]

Thanks tc

I feel day by day closer to the best option for me and my pocket. I would like hearing more expieriencies about oils: "classic-out-of-fashion" but good 20-50 mineral oil or new fashionable 5-30/40 synthetic ones?. If I would continue with the stock completely original engine:mahle pistons, oem cam, exhaust, distributor, ... I think I will go again with 20-50, but hearing about the well -and agressive?- CB 2280 cam, I am more afraid about lobes and high new pressure conditions. What do you use with this cams?

I guess you lik pictures so I send you some pics of my ill engine. The crank looks fine but that 4º piston....

[tencentlife]

The ZDDP issue may have never come up in Europe, but it caused a lot of controversy here. ZDDP (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) is an extreme pressure anti-scuff additive that has been part of motor oils' additive packages for decades; it protects metals from scuffing that would lead to galling in places where the oil film breaks down. It's especially important to protect cam lobes and lifter faces on older two-valve engines that have higher valve spring pressures than are needed with four-valve engines. The allowable levels of ZDDP in motor oils were dropped from the traditional .12 to .16% to not more than .10% to protect catalytic convertors from phosphorus in the exhaust. This change was implemented with API SM and/or CJ-4 rated oils. The oils you buy in Europe may stil have adequate levels if the same change wasn't made. You'll have to research that yourself as far as Spain goes, but you can find plenty of talk about it in most of the online forums that are used mainly by Americans if you want to find out more.

[profe]

Santa klaus arrived!
He brought me new AMC heads for the van -well was not Santa in fact , I ordered them and the main boss carried them in person from the factory to the public parts store where they are sold, true!-

Here I put some pics.

I now wil fit new valves. Mahle or TRW?.

Piledriver: If you have AMC heads, they need rebuilt with all new valves/seats/guides/springs/keepers/rocker studs
(and that's if you take them out of the box new)

I knew quality valves of AMC set are not good enough but it's necessary remove the seats and guides too?. It seems seats have right angles, don't you think so?. Opinion please.

In Spain now is 23:55 so I wish Happy new year for all of you and Health for our/yours familys (... and vans)!

[AMBROSIA]

I'm using oem hydro lifters and original german mahle pistons in new brazilian liners.
I had to shim the 1.25 rockers to be able to use elephants feet on the valve side.
One of the reason I went with carbs is the lack of flexiblity in the stock system.
That being said I will be looking to use a megasquirt system FI conversion at some point.

[profe]

Thanks for answering Ambrosia, but it's out of my plans remove FI. I had no problem with it -works ever- and don't want to invest more $ in carbs and job needed to run it well.
Maybe I'm wrong but I also think the standar FI is able to afford the big bore kit. I don't want to get higher redline engine. I just need a bit more of torque (if possible all rpms)