Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

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ajdenette
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Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by ajdenette »

The heads I just had built have much longer valve guides than either my stock AMC or a Stock VW head and I am wondering if this will be a problem and believe it to be the cause of my sticking valve :evil:

Here is a picture of my freshly rebuilt AMC head with valve guide:
Image

Stock AMC head from a Boston Bob engine:
Image

Stock VW head for full comparison:
Image

Well in order to make sure I cover all bases in case you want more information I will give you the background of why I became concerned with the valve guide length. I put the engine together with a Canadian remanufactured bottom end that was left as is with less than about 30,000 miles on it but was putting a lot of combustion gas into the coolant. I re ringed a set of OE pistons and cylinders from another engine to replace the low compression pistons in this one. The head seem to be my stumbling point now, The heads are AMC castings that at least one has spent some time in a GEX engine and were passed over by Boston Bob for use as new AMC heads were cheaper and easier than having these rebuilt as the guides were waaaay out of spec. Well as I got the head in a trade 0 cost there so I purchased a full set of SI swirl polished valves and a set of their guides as I suspected the ones in the head before they went to the machine shop. I used a shop local to me who's head mechanic used to build race beetle engines, as I couldn’t find any one else I put my faith in them. The heads came back fine and looked good. They sat around for a year before the engine went together and ran. The engine ran great went to temp at least once and ran up and down the street fine I took it around my parents field as its not registered and while creeping back to the drive way it stalled. I was able to get the van started again and get it to its car port and had to head home for the week for work the next week I found one push rod dropped half out of its cup in the rocker arm and was bent but every thing else appeared fine. I replaced the push rod was extra careful re installing the pushrods thinking I might have not seated the one right when I built the engine, or the lifters that always seem to bleed down had given me a bad initial adjustment that caused the issue. So I put in a spare push rod and re adjusted all the valves fired it up and the van ran great. I took it for another jaunt down the street to feel it run and get some speed hit the end of the 3/4 mile of road and went to make the u turn and it dies, and would not restart. Got it home to find the same push rod had dropped. After further investigation I found it was worse than I thought.

Here is what I was greeted by when I removed the valve cover:
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Here is what I found when I compared the valve springs on that side:
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so after wallowing in the thought that I was going to need to pull the engine pull the heads and have them re done for too tight valves I picked up an abused Boston Bob engine to reseal and seal up the oil leaks and hoped to run that while I worked on this engine again and while I worked on that on weekends a member on TOS had a similar issue with the valves sticking on a Syncro he was resurrecting after sitting for much longer. He spoke to his machinist and his machinist said they found black deposits on valves of cars that had sat for a while and when he removed his intake he found exactly that so as mine had also sat for a wile while the engine was waiting for me to finish college and have time and money then get a job where I wanted to work on it so I figured what the heck might as well check and lo and behold there was black gunk that wasn’t there when the engine was being assembled so I emptied the tank and am going to put a set of rebuilt injectors in also. After removing the intake and trying to look at the valve I found some reaaaly long valve guides and thought it time to ask some who know much more than I aka all of you. Next to do on the Syncro is replace the fuel level sensor again (I think for the second time my father thinks for the third) and hopefully drive this SOB.

Image

Sorry for the long post I just want my van drivable and not the laughable vehicle it currently is :x
Alex

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tencentlife
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Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by tencentlife »

They're going to wear longer if you can keep them from sticking. What else can anyone say? Except that you got some crappy gas where you live, or a cruddy tank. Probably ought to feed it Techron or something every tankful.
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Piledriver
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Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by Piledriver »

Easier/cheaper to buy decent fuel at a Chevron/Texaco (same fuel) or Shell station.
These fuels have excellent additive packages, even the regular.

Avoid "discount" gasoline like it has cooties, you tend to get what you pay for.

Same goes for oil+filters--- what oil do you have in YOUR engine?
Hate to beat a dead horse but 99% of the oils you could randomly pick up are NOT suitable for our engines.

It's also possible the rocker geometry could be better if the heads have been flycut.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Were the valve guides reamed after being pressed in? Sometimes, if not all times, they should be checked against the specs (length and diameter of the guides) of the valve stems themselves; the same with springs and spring heights and total valve lengths’; the same with a cam with too high of a “toss” for the valve train to handle. Deposits on the valve stems from additives or oil running down the guides/past the seals or by the ring, etc..

I've seen the wrong valves sent by even the most reputable companies before; accidents can happen. Also, things are not what they always seem to be after the engine is torn down the first time (even from the factory).

The basic stuff again.

Lee
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ajdenette
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:18 pm

Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by ajdenette »

The gas is what was in the gas can and hasbeenthat for about 2 years but it did run periodically and I dontknow about the injectors as they were good spares I plan to add seafoam to the gas and when on the road tend to get gass at Hess reasonable prices but still not a "Sketchy" gasstation. I put valvoline VR1 20W 50in the engine knowing that it has a good adative package for the engine. The guides I dont know if they were reamed I did not know to ask a year ago when I had the heads built. I bought the Galan of sea foam and plan to ad some to every tank full once I get the van running I Just wish I had noticed this before, The springs are used OE VW valve springd as the AMC head had none. Lee just like bugs these engines do not have valve seals and with new rings on the pistons and no great time to truely seat the rings there is still probably a bit of blow by going on.

My next plan though not a new cam or lifters isto get it running and make it run at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes to giveeverything a good chance to seat and not have the cool blast of air from a downshift to shrink the guids.
Alex

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Piledriver
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Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by Piledriver »

2 year old gas?
Make sure you have 2 or 3 spare sets of new plugs if you try that...

The plugs are likely to varnish up very quickly, at best.

Hopefully the seafoam will help.

Personally I'd drain the tank, add a fresh gallon with some of that seafoam, jumper//run the pump for a while, dump that gas, then replace the filter and add fresh fuel.
THEN try starting.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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ajdenette
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:18 pm

Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by ajdenette »

I have already added frosh gas and seafoam jumper//run the pump for a while and dumped the gas into the bucket loader after replacing the sending unit I will pump out the gas (fresh Fuel filter I will probably replace it again anyhow though it is a plastic tank) I had emptied the tank when I put the new fuel pump in as the old one had rotted through the body of the pump.
Alex

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buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by buildabiggerboxer »

O.K, the fact that its only a problem on one valve tells me that the long guides are not the problem with the stuck valve, lack of lube at the build stage is the culprit here, compounded by the long lay up before using it, the guide ended up dry, the others are o.k still? in theory, the long guides may be harder for oil to get down its length, but i don't think in the real world its a problem, i use graphogen assembly lube on valve stems/guides on race engines after similar problems after a long shelf time before fitting by the customer after they left my shop. , i'd put money on that seized one squeaked before seizing, assuming you heard it, and the valve will be hard to remove. hope this helps you.
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ajdenette
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Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by ajdenette »

A light tap with a plastic mallet and the valve popped back to the correct spot I don't believe it even required that the first time any suggestions for getting some oil down the valve to keep it free till the engine gets some miles under its belt?
Alex

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buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Suspected LOOOONG valve guides

Post by buildabiggerboxer »

Hi, All they need is plenty of assembly lube, but I would run at least a well worn 8mm reamer down the inlet guides, a 9mm for the exhaust, unless you run 8mm ex' of course, they are bound to have 'picked up' with the valve stem, these will polish up in a hand drill with 1200 w/d paper, also check they were not bent by hitting the pistons, they should then drop down in the guide smoothly under their own weight. 8)
I assume the other head is the same, but has not had any problems? i would concentrate on the rogue side and run it up gently again.
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