Looking for 73-74 4-door

alicheat · Post by **alicheat** » Fri Jan 25, 2002 9:19 pm

Looking for a good to excellent condition type 4. Preferably 4 door, manual trans if possible. In or near California

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 10:59 am

Hello! Good luck! The four doors had some rust issues near the rear fenders. If you find them clean or at all, you will be lucky. Also...unless it had been converted, you will not find any 4 door 4 speeds. I believe there were few if any shipped to this continent. Only the two doors were, unless the car was gray market through Canada, only only a few thousand of the two doors were shipped. If I am incorrect, please someone (TUNA?) correct me. In all of my travels... I have never seen a 4 door or wagon with a four speed (except for the two I converted and drove around for a few years). But...if you find a broken up 2 door and a four door to put the stuff into....its a one day conversion. All of the mountings and holes are already in the body for either 4-speed or auto. Its very easy. Finding good clutch masters and slaves...are near impossible, but I have some easy and cheap solutions ...just ask if you need them.
Also...for those comtemplating running a type 4 four speed that they have....Be aware! these are beautiful transmissions...Great gearing and longevity.
They have two fatal flaws that can be repaired...and need to be as they get into the high miles...or...they will absolutely ...guaranteed destroy themselves with NO PRIOR warning. AND...short of the differential side seals, main shaft seal, 2nd gear needle bearing sets, counter shaft needle bearing sets, and the ring and pinion bearings....THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO SPARE PARTS AVAILABLE ON THIS PLANET...and none that fit from any other vw or audi box. This unit is unique. Please ask...I can tell you what to do and how to do it to make these transaxles last a very long time. The two problems are: A very soft countershaft material. It is a straight 18mm shaft with a 3mm notch at the end. You can have a new one made anywhere...but hardening it and keeping it straight is difficult. I have gone to a straight piece of 15mm chromally with 6 ball bearings instead of needles. The needles had an oiling problem. All of this is straight press in. No machining. The other problem is the pinion (spyder gear) ratio in the differential. It is very high and wears the spacer shaft inside. This allows the side gear shafts to penetrate into the spyder gears too deeply. At about 100+ K miles, the teeth splatter off of the pinions...destroying everything. The solution is to take a new spacer available from type 1,2,3 tranny of the correct lenth and respace these gears to keep the m happy. Another and better solution is to use the spider and side gears from a type 03 or type 4 auto differential (same type and make or reverse hypoy gearing on the ring and pinion...just not interchangable ...yet) about $100 of machine work makes the spyder gears and side shafts replaceable with type 3/4 auto box spyders...much stronger. Fix it...and these boxes last 300,000 miles...no kidding...easily. If not...some cold night...you will walk. Ray

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Sat Jan 26, 2002 12:36 pm

The Type 4 series was only available here in the US with an automatic transmission. At least that's what everything I've read has stated.

The American 411/412s were always:
a). 4-door sedan or 2-door wagon
b). automatic transaxle
c). fuel injected

That's what makes finding a manual transaxle Type 4 quite difficult. I remember chatting with a Type 4 enthusiast from France and he said that the autos were rare there and the manuals were common. It's a matter of what was sold there.

If you are looking to buy a 411/412, check with Cliff Crate at http://www.notsovintageparts.com/ and tell him that Tuna sent ya. Cliff's a SoCal Type 4 enthusiast who's got a few Type 4s. He may know of one for sale that you'd like.

Tuna

alicheat · Post by **alicheat** » Sun Jan 27, 2002 5:40 pm

Thanks for all the info!!! I am new to type 4s, so all this is great to hear!! I'm only partial to the manual trans, so that's no big deal. Mainly I love the look of these cars and would love to find one with little or no rust. This is just the beginning of my search, I'll be posting more later, I'm sure...

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:20 am

Tuna, I would love it if you could help find some delivery #'s for the two door fastback 412's. I heard one # of a little over 2000 a few years back, but not a reliable source. All of the two doors I have ever seen...(and that amounts to a couple of handfulls) are 4 speed. Thats what I have. I am in the process of installing stronger spyder gears and and stronger countershaft bearing set-up right now. I have been working on the four speeds for about 12 years now, and would be happy to help anyone avoid the pitfalls of these excellent transaxles. Ray

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ray greenwood:
Tuna, I would love it if you could help find some delivery #'s for the two door fastback 412's. I heard one # of a little over 2000 a few years back, but not a reliable source. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will check my resources and see what I have. Having said that, I don't think I have any such numbers. They were never officially sold in the US and since there is very little interest in the car as a whole, finding that might be diffficult. I will see what I have at home.

All of the two doors I have ever seen...(and that amounts to a couple of handfulls) are 4 speed. Thats what I have.

Well, you are definitely one up on me. I've never, in real life, seen a two-door sedan. I've only ever seen the 4-doors and the variants. I guess that's one reason why I want a two-door sedan; it's a rare sight.

I am in the process of installing stronger spyder gears and and stronger countershaft bearing set-up right now. I have been working on the four speeds for about 12 years now, and would be happy to help anyone avoid the pitfalls of these excellent transaxles. Ray

This is interesting. You're are able to find the parts for the transaxle? I'm impressed.

How much abuse do you think they'll be able to withstand (i.e. HP, torque, etc.).

Tuna