lowering front struts?????????

[nick sparrow]

Hello there again,
This time back to the lowering side of things, I remember some time ago someone talking about using Golf GTI front struts with adjustable lower spring cups on a 411 or 412?, does anyone know about this, and has it been done?…..or was I just dreaming crazy ideas up again. I have looked into lowering and increasing the spring rate at the same time on my 412 LS as it could really do with handling a lot better. I have upgraded the sway bars and replaced most of the rubber with Noelathane. Is there anything else I can do apart from replacing the springs and shocks….these I would have to have made up.

nick sparow

[ray greenwood]

Nick, it will be a disaster in the long term to increase spring rate. The stock blue series springs are way strong enough for the weight and handling of the 412. The real problem was the too soft damping of the shock valving rate. The level of damping you will need to keep up with increased spring rate will destroy the control arm bushings and crack the ears where the radius arms contact the body. Been there... If you are lowering, one of the better ways to do it...is to keep the stock springs...at the stock measrurement of compression (measure the assembled strut between upper and lower perches.) You can compress the stock spring about 5/8" without adverse loading effects...but after that...its very progressive and will require a verey very strongly valved strut cartridge to control the rebound. Finding this valving ...if its exists will take you years. If using the stock struts and diemsnions...audi 4000/quantum cartridges have beutiful valving. To use them in stock configuration...you need to make a top stub (I can e-mail you the design) that extends the strut rod about 3". Since you also need a 2" block uinder the styrut for corect placement...heres what I suggest. Take the stock strut housing...take it to a machine shop or find a pipe cutter. Measure the Audi strut cartrige...CAUTION use the KYB GR-2 low pressure gas. It is great...The Gas-a-just high pressuer will literally wreck the front end......Have the strut tube cut below the perch. Take out a section corresponding to how far down you want to lower. Cut the tube again below the top threaded area. You will weld this back in...possibly subtracting a couple of inches so you won't have to use a stub on the strut shaft. When you have then welded back together, use an outer pipe sleeve around each weld for strength. A few simple calculations will allow you to accomplish this. You will have a lowered car with the stock spring rate...which has plenty of control...but now you will have a gas strut that is replaceable and will give you a huge amount of roll control and rebound control. Ray

[herr_sparky]

last night I chucked the strut body, minus the cartridge, in the lathe ant the threads for the cap, the ball joint end in a steady rest, and turned off the bead of the weld only, leaving the body of the strut intact. Now I can relocate it anywhere I want depending on the dimentions of the damper I use. I dont think Im even going to mess with a threaded perch, instead make it adjustable at the top with spacers. So let me get this straight: without the relocated lower perch, the Audi gas damper would take 3 inches off the overall length and therefore lower the car that much, but require preloading the spring a whopping three inches. So you make an adapter to take up some of that space and bring the preload to an acceptable 5/8" or so. After this, all the stock upper assembly can be used? If I relocate the perch, welding in place, couldnt I just chose a location along the strut body that would eliminate the need for this spacer? Also: I dont know what these parts are that I have from the '74, but they dont seem to match up with any of my diagrams for the upper strut assembly. Its the "oblong" bolt pattern, and unfortunately I didnt keep everything in order and cant fit it all back together. Maybe I could email a picture...anyway, am I thinking about this right? If so, what placement would you reccommend for the lower perch to take advantage of the Audi cartridge? thanks

[ray greenwood]

Hey sparky, let me see if we meet eye to eye on this. Just so you know, i'm highly in favor of keeping the stock amount of spring compression while at rest, stock. With the gas dampers...its about as much as the suspension and body can handle. And it handles very flat...and 100% better just with the gas. So lowering the bottom spring perch alone...will unlaod the spring about 3". Okay. Then....adding the KYB cartridge will lower the reach of the rod...and therefore the strut bushing...by about the same 3" (be sure you measure one of the strut cartridges to get the exact dimensions before you reweld the lower perch)...this will leave the loaded length of the spring the same...but bring the total length of the strut from balljoint to bushing plate...about 3" lower than stock. Thats good...as it will handle just like stock..but much better becasue of the gas cartridge. But thats too low...so...knock the pressed in bolts out of the bushing plate. Put in larger diameter bolts...say 10mm...because you are going to make them longer...and you need the strength for the next step. The next step..is to make a series of round flat spacers with bolt holes that match the body...in the oblong pattern. 1/4" each in thickness would do fine. Take say 6 of them for each side...stack them above the bushing plate between the body..to give a lift of 1,5". This would give you a total lowering of 1.5" approx. This would also negate the top stud mod. It would also not allow you to use the stock bump stop...but you can get a slip around model and boot at pep boys. The correct way to assemble the bushing is...spacer tube in middle of bearing...then on the top side..the dished plate with the delrin rim...like from a fox...or the bare metal plate which rests against the delrin ring pressed onto the the bushing plate...a 1/8" thick flat washer on top of that...then the nut.On the bottom... the ledge on the strut rod rests against the bottom side of the top perch plate of the spring. On top of the perch plate...resting against the bottom of the bearing goes a washer or shim stack...just thick enough to give about .010" clearance betwen the top perch plate and the metal bell skirt of the bearing cup. Thats all. The torque of the top nut..and the resulting clearance between the top dish and the delrin rim..when the car is jacked up and the strut unloaded...tells you wether you have enough torque on the nut. Thats in most of the manuals and is the same for superbeetle. I also recommend buying (69 bucks) one of the strut brace assemblies for superbeetles..that fits the oblong holes on your bushing...perfectly. You will have to cut the tube in the middle and extend it. Use a threaded turn buckle...so you can tension it. Bolt the plates onto your strut towers..and weld them around the edge. This is a huge improvement in roll control..for cheap...and it strengthens the bushing mount point for what you are going to be doing. Ray