What will make a Bug competitive against newer cars?

[spectre6000]

Are there any updates to that wonderful and comprehensive post from gcorrado?

[Jadewombat]

A few questions:

-What is your initial budget to build the car? (Suspension, tires, engine)
-What is your planned upkeep cost per season? Mine was $500-1000 (mostly tires)
-Do you plan on running in an street-tire class (ST-) or a prepared one?

A stock old bug is not competitive in H stock. Period. Go put a 50hp bug and drum brakes against a stock newer mini cooper (the BMW ones) and see what happens. I ran my '73 super for a year and a half in EP because of modifications I had done with the car years ago put me in that class. I didn't win anything, but had a lot of fun trying. I definitely got the most attention at each event. My thoughts, there's basically two directions you can go with an old bug--high horse-power with a Subaru swap or built up motor, or light as you possibly can. My bug was more towards this second option, not because of budget but because the amount of time involved to work on the car between events I simply didn't have. My car was nowhere near the limits of engine or trans. rules. I did every aero. trick, shaved as much weight as I possible could, and tried to keep everything close to the center of gravity, which is just behind the front seats on the floor (I'm not sure why people move the battery to the trunk away from the CoG, it's in the perfect spot under the rear seat). My car didn't have a huge amount of power, but it taught me also to stay on the gas a lot more to keep my momentum up.

Look at the '89 Honda CRX. Incredibly competitive car right out of the box, with a tuned suspension it will spank all kinds of cars with all of 100hp all day long (Vettes, Mustangs). In my opinion, if you had 100-120hp in a bug from a type 1 (the lightest choice) 2 liter engine and a single center mounted carb. or injection, tuned suspension, truss bars, stock type built up trans. (again the lightest trans., but with a Quiafe) and the right wheel/tire combo, good brakes, and got the total weight down to 1600lbs. and some aero mods. you'd have an incredibly competitive car even in EP. Keep in mind your old bug has had a LOT of movement and forces acting on it after all these years. If you have to go out and run against a new cars in an ST class (Honda Fit, Subaru BRZ, etc.) they have the advantage of a new stiff chassis. Stitch welding helps add rigidity.

On the other end of the spectrum, check out Humble's car and build thread: http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7848 really great work he's done with that car. I would argue that engine swaps, turbos add considerably more weight, only because it's all the stuff that goes with it. With considerably more increased hp, everything needs to be bigger, reinforced more, and heavier. Not saying it can't be done, but again some of the quickest cars are the lightest and nimblest that zip through the cones with not necessarily the most hp (Miatas, S2000s, karts).

[vdubsinjensen]

You should look into building a car for ChumpCar World Series. http://www.chumpcar.com
Rules are way less restrictive, You Get Tons of seat time with real wheel to wheel racing. It is one of, if not THE fastest growing series in the country.

[Humble]

There's a general saying about racing... How do you make a small fortune racing? Start with a big one.

Unless you've got 5+ years of racing experience (autox/hill climb/track day) I would stick to the slower classes. The biggest reason to do so is that you learn far more as a driver when you can drive a slow car fast. When you can do that, you can drive any car fast. It's not impressive at first, but look at it like medical school, no one becomes a doctor overnight, and no one would trust anyone who did.

Beetles, Super Beetles specifically, are baby 911s. With some suspension mods, even a stock super can do well at autox. Go through the 3 B's, bushings, bearings, and ball joints, throw on some fresh gas shocks, and get a set of sticky street tires. Go as fast as you can afford to go, but remember that the driver makes the car and the only way to be a better driver is to get seat time.

Here's a couple of my cars:

73 super, sports bug (street prepared)
built 2165cc, 165 whp
coil over front, kyb struts, 7/8" front sway bar
944 23.5mm torsion bars, kyb shocks, 17mm rear sway bar
disc conversion, porsche 17x7 wheels, 205/45-17 dunlop direzza z1 star spec tires
full interior, stereo, and sub





73 super, sports bug, race car (over street prepared or x prepared)
built 2165cc turbo, 330 whp
coil over front, koni adjustable struts, custom camber plates, 7/8" front sway bar
coil over rear qa1 adjustable shocks, 944 turbo s2 alu arms, 3/4" rear sway
930 discs/calipers/MC brakes, fikse 17x8 17x9,5 wheels, 245 and 275/40-17 semi slick tires

[buildabiggerboxer]

hi jason, your still very busy i see, keep on buggin, love the new build too, i was surprised you asked the question with what youve been up too lol . i can only speak from a racing view point as trying to go fast on the road is a no go in this country, but hey ho, so its simple physics then , all you need is 200 hp with all up race weight at 800 kg, and all the detail work bang on, then there are not many road based cars that will deal with you. push it to 300 hp and you will be up with purpose built race cars, but im always prepared for something extraordinarily quick to appear and move the goal posts, its down to how easy the car is to work on and set up
between races for me, i just messed up a race last month with very hot weather at 42 deg track temperature, usual launch procedure boiled the tyres of the lights, so i'm 2 down straight off
then it cooked the left rear , 15 mins to the next race, so a quick 5 click drop on rear shock rebound with a 2lb rear pressure drop was administered, bingo, rocket launch for a 2 place gain, Honda Integra R and a Clio cup car, so a result there then for 5th place, the lead pack is out of reach tho whatever i do, being highly modded outright race cars on single seater chassis, these pose as Lotus Elans etc but have Lola underpinnings, but i'm usually the first Saloon car home, but even 400 hp wont bring them to me unless i make it "not a Bug", that roads not for me, it comes back to class structure unfortunately, if there were more track bugs out there, we would have our own race, i may wait some time yet