1971 VW Beetle

[chasecarlson34]

Can some of you more educated folk give some opinions on this ride, and maybe some questions to get the car cheaper if that makes sense, and questions in general to see if this is a decent pickup? I am looking for a project ( rookie here.) Any opinions, tips, or advice would be appreciated.

[helowrench]

Buy the most rust free that you can find.
Everything else is fairly easy, but rust is the hard part.
do not worry about rust on fenders or running boards as those are bolted on, it is the cut and weld to replace stuff that will eat your lunch.

Unless you are a welder by trade

[helowrench]

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

[Marc]

Standard or Super? The Super has a bigger trunk and its spare tire lays flat in the bottom; on a Standard the spare sits nearly upright in the front.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Welcome to STF chasecarlson34. How are you going to use the car: restoration, resto-mod, daily driver, race... There are year breaks also, besides what has been said, that may give you different result based on how you plan on using the car.

Lee

[chasecarlson34]

WOW! Thanks for welcoming with 'open arms.' It's a relief being welcomed with all these internet trolls lurking on forums.

Welcome to STF chasecarlson34. How are you going to use the car: restoration, resto-mod, daily driver, race... There are year breaks also, besides what has been said, that may give you different result based on how you plan on using the car.

I plan on fixing her up and maybe converting into a baja bug. I think off roading would be a fun change of gears. I'm a rookie at all this, and I heard VW bugs are a good place to start, so I guess just a minor resto, some tweaking, and a conversion to a baja bug. I don't have a big budget, but I am also not worried about it being a DD as this will be a side project and whenever I get my paychecks ill put it into this car. (I'm 17 years old, still living off my parents.)

Lee

Standard or Super? The Super has a bigger trunk and its spare tire lays flat in the bottom; on a Standard the spare sits nearly upright in the front.

Whichever is cheapest! Like I said I'm new to this, so I'm not going all out. Standard sounds better for me, but if we're being specific. The one I am looking at is a standard.


Thanks again for the help fellas, here is the ad I am looking at. Feel free to poke around on the Orange County, California Craigslist sections for Bugs you think would suite me nicely (:


http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4197944629.html

[Marc]

...The one I am looking at is a standard...

That's a good thing, so say I. I'll therefore spare you all of the extra caveats pertaining to the Super's front suspension and steering for now...just DON'T change your mind and buy a Super on impulse, we can cross that bridge if we come to it. Generally speaking rust isn't going to be a problem with a native SoCal car like it is in snow country where the streets get salted. VWs have had a big following in CA for a long time; hopefully you will luck into one that someone else has fixed up nicely already but has to sell it - just be aware that there are a whole lot of hacks who think they know all about VWs, and more of them in CA than anywhere else IMO, so the odds are at least as high that you'll find one that looks decent but has been butchered mechanically. The Holy Grail is the same as for any marque, a sound one- or two-owner car that's all original and not messed with. Don't overlook the possibility of a repair shop having a line on a good car that needs repairs which are out of the current owner's budget. Often a shop will buy such a car themselves and fix it up to flip in their spare time, but a shop that's busy or space-limited might be happy to just take a "finder's fee" that includes a professional assessment of the car's condition so you know what you're getting into.

[mountainkowboy]

That one doesn't look to be a bad buy. Do you do your own wrenching? If you do than I would take a serious look at it, if not then I would look for a runner driver.

[chasecarlson34]

That one doesn't look to be a bad buy. Do you do your own wrenching? If you do than I would take a serious look at it, if not then I would look for a runner driver.

I don't do my own wrenching, but I want to learn, and start to do something. Like I said I'm a rookie, completely new to this. Unfortunately, that car just sold today. :/

...The one I am looking at is a standard...

That's a good thing, so say I. I'll therefore spare you all of the extra caveats pertaining to the Super's front suspension and steering for now...just DON'T change your mind and buy a Super on impulse, we can cross that bridge if we come to it. Generally speaking rust isn't going to be a problem with a native SoCal car like it is in snow country where the streets get salted. VWs have had a big following in CA for a long time; hopefully you will luck into one that someone else has fixed up nicely already but has to sell it - just be aware that there are a whole lot of hacks who think they know all about VWs, and more of them in CA than anywhere else IMO, so the odds are at least as high that you'll find one that looks decent but has been butchered mechanically. The Holy Grail is the same as for any marque, a sound one- or two-owner car that's all original and not messed with. Don't overlook the possibility of a repair shop having a line on a good car that needs repairs which are out of the current owner's budget. Often a shop will buy such a car themselves and fix it up to flip in their spare time, but a shop that's busy or space-limited might be happy to just take a "finder's fee" that includes a professional assessment of the car's condition so you know what you're getting into.

Thanks Marc,
Those are some good tips! Ill keep that in mind. Generally speaking do you think a newbie would be able to take on a project such as fixing up an old VW? Also what kind of budget would you suggest? Just to get one running, and maybe a few cheap mods, etc.

[helowrench]

Thanks Marc,
Those are some good tips! Ill keep that in mind. Generally speaking do you think a newbie would be able to take on a project such as fixing up an old VW? Also what kind of budget would you suggest? Just to get one running, and maybe a few cheap mods, etc.

It is not a problem.
The learning curve is fairly mild.
Get the books. At least the Muir Book (often called the idiot's guide) and the Bently manual (the official shop manual)
For complete novices, the John Muir book "how to keep your volkswagen alive" is a good read, and will bring you up to a good starting point.
TIP-- find a spiral bound version secondhand, as they lay flat while working. Muir gives a great description of the tools required for each task.
NOTE there are a couple of places where Muir will lead you wrong, so use the Bently for the actual job.

Side note. 69-71 standard beetles are my choices, due to the rear suspension, and the lighter weight.
72-74 added a bit of weight in crash protection, but that probably will not help against the 2 ton Suburbans out there.

Ifn you want convertible, please note that the 69-70 convertible were Standard Beetle based, and from 71 and subsequent were Super Beetle based, which require a few extra tools.

Rob

[Ol'fogasaurus]

You didn't say where you were from on your profile so some advice may be hard to give. You said potential Baja so look forwards on the choice. There were two splits in the models that can make a difference.

I am sure Marc, Dusty Mohave and more than a few others can add to this better than I can say it but maybe this will help:

If I had known what I think I know now I may have done things a bit different and save a pile of $$$ and a lot of hear ache but I did learn a lot this way so here are some quick tips:

Bugs 1960 and before were swing axle and had a (separation) split case (down the center) swing (two joint) transaxle. It works but it is notoriously weak for any off-roading or other abuse; Having said this; restorers will probably jump at a chance to pick one up for a decent price but remember that you would then have to come up with a replacement one yourself).



I don't know who drew this up or where is came from but it shows the two types of IRS transaxle that VW used. The S-A (two-joint) is the swing axle style that VW used in the bugs through 1968. In either '67 or '68 they changed to what is referred to as a long style axle and the transaxles before that was is referred to as a short style axle. There are some other more subtle differences, including gear ratios, that other can tell you when it comes time.

From '69 and on there the change was to what is referred to as "IRS" or more accurately a 4-joint suspension. With work and $$$ you can get some pretty good suspension travel out of it.

There is a realistic limit in travel potential to the swing axle and notching of the spring plate shouldn't be done as you can damage the transaxle with too much angle to the axles. The tilting in and out of the tire during its travel is very pronounced with this type of transaxle and its suspension. This should not exclude the earlier bugs from having fun, you just have to know the limitations involved.

Before you go any farther: check to see that the title and the numbers stamped on the rear part of the tunnel, just forward of the inspection plate for the shift rod to transaxle match. If not... I would pass. Each state is different on how strict they are about this but it is best that they match. On some years there should be the same numbers attached to the body. If you move from a state where things are a bit more lax than other states you could have problems with licensing/inspection. Be warned!

In '66 VW changed the front beam (suspension) from a King and Link (K&L) to a ball-joint (BJ) suspension. They look similar at first glance but K&L beam us usually preferred as you can get more suspension travel with it. With the BJ arms and spindles the ball-joints themselves limit the travel to somewhere between 4" and 6" of travel (it depends on who you are talking to as to how much travel they got. There are other options on the BJ front suspension and, with some work, you can adapt the K&L suspension onto a BJ pan. The spacing between the two beam assembles is different with the BJ being something like a 1/2" or more wider.

The easiest way to spot the two is that the K&L shock tower is fairly flat and has an angle to the rear a few inches above the beam. The ball-joint shock tower angles to the outside of the car and has what looks like a cap on top. The K&L beam uses a shock with a mounting eye on both ends while the BJ shock has an eye on the bottom and a "post" on the top so they are not interchangeable... at least without modifications to the tower but then... why do it.

The pans, as far as use goes, are about the same with the exceptions of the frame head (where the front beam hooks to) and the torsion bar tube. The swing axle tube does not have pivots for the trailing arms that the IRS needs; it can be changed but that is another subject. Torsion bars lengths change between years but that too is for another discussion.

Look for rust around the battery tray (under the rear seat on the passenger side) and on the sides of the pan (the VW frame is not like older cars, it is a type of uni-body) from the front firewall back to the rear firewall. Lift the pads/carpet to check the condition of the floor closely. Check the condition of the doors mainly for rust and door sag.

Look at the condition of the wiring (rats nests are not a good sign) and make sure everything electrical works; from horns to light. Check the braded ground strap in the rear from the body to the engine as they can be a source of problems.

Check and see how the tires are wearing as they can give indications as to the condition of the suspension. Check the tie-rod ends, the ball-joints or king and the link pins (I've seen the spaces rusted to oblivion). The standard way is to jack one side of the car up until the wheels are off the ground, block the pan for safety then put a long piece of 2 X 4 or something similar under the tire and lift. Look at the BJs or king pins to see if there is any movement. For king pins, ball-joints (lesser chance of an indicator but it is still good to do it) and tie-rod ends grab the tire on the top and bottom and work the tire back and forth, it should be tight, no slop. Next grab the tire on the sides and again wiggle it; it too should be tight (tie-rod ends and steering). If there is no movement good and move on to the next check. If there is movement then check to see if there is movement in the front hub where the tires mount (i.e., wheel bearings), the steering and tie-rod ends and suspension joint (BJs or K&L).

If everything seems to be OK then you might be ready for a test drive.

Some basics to build from (no pun intended). I am sure I have forgotten some things and hopefully I have not got anything wrong; if so I am sure it will be corrected.

Approach this knowing that unless is it pristine, you are going to have to do some work but know what you can do yourself (watch your ego here. Don't fall in love with the car and let yourself be fooled by that) or are willing to tackle and what you will have to have someone else to do. There are a lot of "well intended" cars others have bought and even may be started out there for sale so you should be able to come up with something you can handle that will not be out of a beginner's ability to tackle.

Lee

[chasecarlson34]

Thanks to both of you! A lot of that vocabulary is over my head, but I plan to do some researching on those phrases/words. Thanks again for the all the help, the community here is truly amazing. I am living in Southern California. I will definitely keep my eyes open and try to be more observant so I don't pick up a piece of crap. I'm not going to rush into anything. Thanks again

[Jim Ed]

Tech links

Here are some really good tech links:
http://vw-resource.com/
http://geneberg.com/
http://www.thebugshop.org/
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/
http://www.aircooledtech.com/
http://www.classicvwbugs.com/
http://www.justkampers.com/videos/
http://www.chirco.com/tech_articles/
http://www.chirco.com/tech_articles/?p=153

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
http://www.hotvws.com/
http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/

Electrical
http://www.speedyjim.net/

Newsgroups:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... .aircooled
..a bit snobbish and a lot of verbal abuse sometimes.
--------------------
stores
http://www.aircooled.net/
http://www.cbperformance.com/Default.asp
http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/home.php
and sometimes
http://cip1.com/ but, they sell a lot of Chinese parts.

[Jim Ed]

Always use a motor oil with zinc(ZDDP) in it like Valvoline VR1, 10w-30 in cold weather and VR1 20W-50 in hot weather over 85F. Most modern oils do not have enough ZDDP and ruins your cam with its flat tappets.
Your local auto parts store might not stock it but they can order it for you if you ask. I think Carquest stocks it.
Change the oil every 1000 miles if it does not have a filter.
In the tranny always use GL-4 80W-90. I think O Reily Auto sells it. AMSoil sells it.
Jegs.com sells it.
GL-5 gear oil will ruin your trannys brass gears.

[aussiebug]

Always use a motor oil with zinc(ZDDP) in it like Valvoline VR1, 10w-30 in cold weather and VR1 20W-50 in hot weather over 85F. Most modern oils do not have enough ZDDP and ruins your cam with its flat tappets.

Most oils still have SOME ZDDP in them - just a reduced amount. It's sacrificial, so it's the amount left in the oil at change time which is imporatn and since we change the oil more often (unless a filter is fitted) then most oils are OK. But if you are waorried about it, Castrol Edge oils have a higher level of ZDDp too.

Change the oil every 1000 miles if it does not have a filter.

That's overkill Ed. The VW recommended 3000 miles works just fine unless you live in a very dusty environment. My 43 year ownership of one bug, which still has it's original engine (one rebuild) with over 400,000km on it tells me that - just oil changes every 3000 miles, and stick to one (good) brand so the additive package doesn't change. In my case that's Castrol (available everywhere in Aus at a reasonable price) but any good brand will do.

In the tranny always use GL-4 80W-90. I think O Reily Auto sells it. AMSoil sells it.
Jegs.com sells it.
GL-5 gear oil will ruin your trannys brass gears.

Sorry Ed but you are about 5 years behind the times here - the very FIRST GL5 oils did cause problems for the brass components in VW gearboxes - it actually ate the zinc out of the brass (which is an alloy of zinc and copper), making the brass porous and weak. I was certainly recommending the use of the older GL4 oils back then. But they fixed that very quickly with a change in formulation and it would be very unusual to find any of the "bad" GL5 still around.

And as an alternative, you can also safely use a 75w90 synthetic gear oil if you wish - it will give you smoother "cold" gear changes if you live in a cold climate. Just make sure the upper number is 90.