Emergency Brake Stuck??

[vwcalbug]

I was diong some things on my car today, mostly cleaning. Its been sitting in the rain for the last 3-4 days, and i haven't run it. I tried to start it, and it would crank over but not fire, i fixed that problem. But when i went to move, released e brake, it would just ride up. It wouldn't budge, i tried going forwards, same thing. Finally after 5-6 tries, it "broke free". Is it possible for rust to do something like this? What is a decent explanation?? Thanks- Justin

[nybug]

The cable could be rusted-up in it's tube.

[wrench_monkey]

vwcalbug,

What happened is the brake shoe(s) of one or more of your wheels rusted to the drum itself. This is very common for cars that have sat for a long time or cars that sat where water may have risen up to the drums level.

The shoes used today are semi-metalic and of course the drums themselves are metal so yes they can rust together.

You may wanna check the free rotation of each wheel when you have a few minutes....
Jack up the front end and spin the wheels to see if they spin freely or if they "snag-up" during a 360 degree rotation. Then do the same thing for the back wheels.
You may have to adjust your brakes to back-off any shoes that are tight or snagging too much on the drum.
It may be that there's nothing found and it was just the excessive water from the rain that allowed them to rust so quickly but a quick check will never hurt.
Sometimes the drums get out-of-round and if the brakes are adjusted they can be adjusted too tight. They'll feel good for a portion of the full 360 degrees of rotation but then snag up hard in the last 20 degrees because the drum's inner surface (drum's diameter) is not perfect anymore. This is more common on the rear brakes where folks can SLAM on the ebrake and cause an already warmed-up drum to warp.

HTH.
--
jeff
http://www.revolks.com/

[nybug]

I was diong some things on my car today, mostly cleaning. Its been sitting in the rain for the last 3-4 days, and i haven't run it. I tried to start it, and it would crank over but not fire, i fixed that problem. But when i went to move, released e brake, it would just ride up. It wouldn't budge, i tried going forwards, same thing. Finally after 5-6 tries, it "broke free". Is it possible for rust to do something like this? What is a decent explanation?? Thanks- Justin

My 70 Beetle had the exact symptoms that (vwcalbug) had. It is always best to approach a problem logically (go for the less complicated solution) before going into a repair that is unnecessary, labor intensive and expensive.
Check the parking brake cable for any damage (due to rust). Spray some WD40 into the tube that house the cable.
Also, check out your parking brake handle and all it's components for damage. A lot of times this handle is pulled too hard causing it's mechanism to jam-up.

[vwcalbug]

wow, thanks for the info guys. Wrench, i will definatley try that. This is my first post on this forum, and im very glad to see that people are very active.

My next question would be, "whats the path of the e brake cable?" The ebrake handle is self is fine, and when this happened, i loosened the tension, thinking that might be the issue. Thanks- Justin

[vwcalbug]

oh yeah, also, the brakes on the car were all redone about a year ago (front discs). - Justin

[Chris V]

The shoes used today are semi-metalic and of course the drums themselves are metal so yes they can rust together.

That's an interesting statement...semi-met's have been around for a long time, and organics are still the standard on an ACVW; in fact it's hard to find semi-met's.

You may wanna check the free rotation of each wheel when you have a few minutes....
Jack up the front end and spin the wheels to see if they spin freely or if they "snag-up" during a 360 degree rotation. Then do the same thing for the back wheels.
...Sometimes the drums get out-of-round and if the brakes are adjusted they can be adjusted too tight. They'll feel good for a portion of the full 360 degrees of rotation but then snag up hard in the last 20 degrees because the drum's inner surface (drum's diameter) is not perfect anymore. This is more common on the rear brakes where folks can SLAM on the ebrake and cause an already warmed-up drum to warp...

If someone slams on the e-brake it should lock up and heat would be between the tire and the pavement...most rear drums are warped (or glazed) because people drive with the E-brake on.

When adjusting the shoes you want some drag, it's normal to adjust them so that a stern spin will net a couple revolutions with the wheel on. After adjusting the shoes stomp the brake pedal to seat the shoes and check the drag again.

If the drums are warped the solution is not to back of the shoes, but to get new drums or have the old ones turned.


If the shoes are really stuck, tap the drums with a hammer or sledge to break them loose.

[wrench_monkey]

wow, thanks for the info guys. Wrench, i will definatley try that. This is my first post on this forum, and im very glad to see that people are very active.

My next question would be, "whats the path of the e brake cable?" The ebrake handle is self is fine, and when this happened, i loosened the tension, thinking that might be the issue. Thanks- Justin

Cool. Glad you're finding help here.
It's fun when there are others to share in your trials

I saw you had your brakes done a year ago and that you have disc brakes up front..

What nybug was saying is that the e-brake system is cable operated via that handle inbetween your seats and that these two cables run inside the tunnel and exit the transaxle tunnel fork just inboard from your rear wheels. At this exit point, the cables run through flexible steel braided, rubber coated tubes to the backing plates of your rear drums.
These flexible steel tubes can become abraided by road rash over the years and the steel becomes exposed to the water/goo off the road. If you don't use your ebrake regularily it will seize inside this flexible tube and you could find that you apply your ebrake and it won't release.

However, if you released your ebrake handle AND it dropped all the way down then the springs in the rear brakes are pulling it down and thus, that cable is not seized or locking-up your rear brakes. nybug's suggestion is to soak the flexible cables with some penetrating oil to help loosen them if they are seizing the cable and this is good advise if that's what's going on, however, you should remove the cables and regrease them since penetrating oil is not a stable lubricant that will remain for very long; it's just good at liberating stuck parts.

My personal experiences have shown that you should always use your ebrake for this reason - it prevents the cables from getting rusted up if those flex-tubes are corroded.

I'll stand behind what I said earlier. The shoes simply stuck to the drums caused by the rain. Once you gave the engine enough "oomph!" to over-come the stuck shoe(s) they were liberated and a few seconds of braking during normal driving afterwards ground-off any rusty debris that was previously causing them to stick.

Remember that your brake shoes (and the disc's caliper pads) ride within a millimeter of the drum or rotor so it doesn't take more than drops of water to allow them to rust. Normal driving will clean-off the braking surfaces and all should return to normal.

I only suggested the "free wheel spin" to make sure the shoes aren't adjusted poorly, but since you know your brake job was done within the last year that's not likely an issue.

If you want to test your ebrakes find an empty parking lot or somewhere safe to "test drive" your car. Put it in 1st and drive a few yards, then let off the gas, shift to neutral and pull up gently on the ebrake to see how well the car slows down. Does it pull left or right or does it slow down straight and narrow? Any pulling is an indication that your ebrake cables are not in-sync with each other and need adjusting at the ebrake handle (those two 10mm nuts at the top of the cables).

Generally, I like to have my ebrake cables (in my Beetles and Ghias) setup to stop the car from rolling in 3 "clicks". I'll only use 4 or 5 clicks when on a hill. If you need more than this, then your cables could be adjusted or they may even be stretched from previous owners "slamming" the ebrake handle like they're trying to pull-up tree roots from the ground below

Good Luck with your ride. Enjoy it!

[vwcalbug]

Yea, im confident that its not the cable, and it shouldn't be the brakes themselve. I will still do the wheel rotation. I do use my ebrake ALL the time. Everytime i get out of the car, its used.

Im just shocked that they rusted THAT hard, i mean...my car almost stalled while trying to break it free, in a matter of days...weired stuff, but thats why we love these cars! haha.

Wrench, your devotion to this forum is greater then i have seen on any forum i have ever been a part of. Your knowledge and detail that goes into every post, i've just never seen anyone write so much. I see this in alot of poeple on this board, and I will def. be sticking around.- Justin

[nybug]

wow, thanks for the info guys. Wrench, i will definatley try that. This is my first post on this forum, and im very glad to see that people are very active.

My next question would be, "whats the path of the e brake cable?" The ebrake handle is self is fine, and when this happened, i loosened the tension, thinking that might be the issue. Thanks- Justin

I'll stand behind what I said earlier. The shoes simply stuck to the drums caused by the rain. Once you gave the engine enough "oomph!" to over-come the stuck shoe(s) they were liberated and a few seconds of braking during normal driving afterwards ground-off any rusty debris that was previously causing them to stick.



Good Luck with your ride. Enjoy it!

I have difficulty believing that the rear brakes would lock up with rust in only three to four days. I had parked one of my older Beetles next to my Uncles Barn in New Jersey over the entire winter one year. In the spring I started it up and drove away, with no brake issues. The soil in Jersey is made mostly of clay (which does not absorb moisture very well), plus Jersey has very wet weather especially in the winter. So when I hear stated that the brakes shoes on Justin car rusted to the drums in only three to four days. I have my doubts.

[vwcalbug]

i agree, its weired....so what could it be? Could the shoes got stuck and when i released ebrake, they just didn't "spring back" or whatever? I had to seriously give it power to break it free...what could it be??

[Rick68]

I had the same problem after i had my beetle on jack stands for a couple weeks in the garage. The whole time the E-brake was on and the shoes chose to reside where they were wen i dropped the handle. Smacked the drum with a rubber mallet and was free again. After that i had to readjust them a bit now all is well. These same guys that are helping you are the ones that had me go Fonzy on my brake drums as

[vwcalbug]

hahah, i love that idea..."just whack it with a malot, it'll be fine" either that or "just get some duct tape and...."

[GK73]

I had the same problem after i had my beetle on jack stands for a couple weeks in the garage. The whole time the E-brake was on and the shoes chose to reside where they were wen i dropped the handle. Smacked the drum with a rubber mallet and was free again. After that i had to readjust them a bit now all is well. These same guys that are helping you are the ones that had me go Fonzy on my brake drums as

Rick, I'm having the same issue. Going to open up the drums tmrw but curious, did you have any prob w the front brakes? Did you have to any bleeding or just adjustments?