Should we be tuning our own engines?

[petew]

Drive channel on youtube has been interviewing a bunch of racing/tuning experts. They put this interview up the other day and I watched it last night. There's some GREAT thinking in here.



Steve Dynon's parting comments were to the effect that amateurs should avoid tuning their own engines. Love you guys to watch the vid and hear your thoughts on his comments.

[Piledriver]

...Yes ... and only professionals should build them.

...of course he would say that, if everyone could tune their own engines or god forbid the software got good enough to do a reasonable job, he would have to find another line of work.

Might make financial sense for his clientele with $100K rides and owners who only work on/mod their cars using their wallets.

Consider the source, take with a suitably sized slab of salt.

[madmike]

How else you going to learn/know whats up when an issue does comes up?

[turbobaja]

Consider the source, take with a suitably sized slab of salt.

This ^^

[volksbugly]

now this is a trip I just came across this video on my own accord. Great minds think alike I guess!

He does say how to do it, if your doing it on your own.

This has prompted me to make the knock sensor a priority again. When I was looking into it I guestimate that the subaru wrx engine knock sensor should be aprox the right frequency range for our engines.

[Stripped66]

Very well-done interview. I was a bit skeptical, reading some of the comments first, but I liked how he reduced several complex relationships into easy-to-understand examples for (presumably) novice viewers. Regarding his comments about who should be tuning an engine, he certainly gave credit to the hobbiests who are doing it to learn, for the fun of it...that's us! We stumble through this process using trial and error, and occasionally fall on our swords hard. We accept that. But for the target audience of these video series, his advice is spot on.

[petew]

His description of air pumps, peak torque and getting round the single efficiency point were just awesome. Such a simple explanation. I also loved his description of how they hacked the first ECU. Hilarious and reminds me so much of what many of us are doing here.

I took his advice pretty seriously. I also think he has a point re anyone and everyone tuning their motor. You can melt $$$$$s in seconds without even trying, especially with a turbo. At the same time, you're right when you say he has a vested interest in saying "don't tune your own motor" (just as we do in saying, "I can tune my own motor"). But then I don't have the $$$$ to employ someone multiple times to adjust my ECU, so I have to learn. It did make me think of the numerous times Mario has pitched in and helped tune peoples cars here and the enormous difference it made.

What I thought was especially interesting about his description of tuning track cars for the mid range precision rather than just WOT.

Lots to think about there.

[Piledriver]

now this is a trip I just came across this video on my own accord. Great minds think alike I guess!

He does say how to do it, if your doing it on your own.

This has prompted me to make the knock sensor a priority again. When I was looking into it I guestimate that the subaru wrx engine knock sensor should be aprox the right frequency range for our engines.

IIRC the Subarus use a std Bosch knock sensor or licensed Japanese version thereof.
Its a "wideband" microphone vs a tuned sensor like on many old(er) school GM etc.

It will work on any motor, but requires a bit smarter dedicated electronics to work.
The MS3 optional dual channel knock setup does seem to work as intended.
(std on MS3pro) and J&S boxes use the same chips as I recall, and have an excellent reputation.

You can even use an old single channel Safeguard to feed a knock signal to a MS2, via the knock indicator LED signal.
It is an analog output and proportional to the knock intensity.

You can of course use it as originally intended with a distributor, as it will retard the timing sent to the coil by itself.

...of course you ~can buy an MS3 ECU complete with the optional RTC and knock modules for what some of the Safeguards go for used.

[petew]

So has anyone on here done this?

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/knock.htm

[MarioVelotta]

So has anyone on here done this?

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/knock.htm

I used the http://www.viatrack.ca/ setup for awhile. I couldn't get it "tuned" and it would false indicate more times than not just driving down the road. Our engines are very noisy mechanically making the implementation really hard. I tried 3 locations. I bought a J&S knock box to try as well. Haven't gotten around to using it yet though. Or the on board dual knock module on the MS3-Pro. It's suppose to work well. Then "problem" with knock sensors is to get them to work right you have to make your engine knock, not awesome.

When I was in my tuning class it was very apparent on the dyno that if there was knock, you are probably already 5+ degrees to advanced. And the torque was at a plateau for those 5+ degrees. The more high stung the engine the smaller that peak is, so it would be really easy to overshoot with risky timing on a all out race motor.

Check this video out that one of my clients did while on the dyno.



Here is the graph he put together after the fact for a visual representation. You can see the engine want 35 degrees for max torque. and it's pretty flat for some time after.

unnamed.jpg

[Steve Arndt]

I have a J&S single setup for sale along with the dual dash gauge display.