Seeking advice for my engine build.

[vwbaker83]

First off, I appreciate the people that answer questions on forums. You guys rock! I have abandoned my type 1 build (after getting good advice from some folks at samba. the combo I was going for wasn't going to deliver what I wanted.) I have a 76 914 2.0 core I would like to go with instead. After deliberation and restraint, I am going with a stock stroke 96mm bore size combo. The ingredients are straight forward, except for the lifters. I keep reading stuff about how important it is to have good ones, and if I could find ceramic ones, I would go with those since supposedly I can use them with any cam and even cam changes just in case I decide to rebuild it later as a 2270cc.
Details of the build that I have figured out so far- dpr counterweighted crank, re-bushed stock rods, kb pistons, rebuilt 914 heads, only because I can't afford rs+ heads from Jake at this point. That is something that will hopefully come down the road. Things I don't have figured out - Lifters, cam, pushrods, rockers.
I am hoping to make between 125-150 hp, I know the latter number is a stretch with a 2056 street build. What do I need as far as valvetrain goes? Will a transaxle similar to rancho's pro street handle the type 4? I know the answers are on this forum, really I would atleast like lifter and cam advice. Oh yeah, any experience with type4store's parkerized ones? And yes I am a newbie.

[vwbaker83]

Oh yeah, the recipient vehicle is a 72 super.

[Type 4 Unleashed]

For lifters EMW carries the Thorsen Piper 60g Tool Steel lifters, that can also be used on multiple cams like the Ceramics.
For a cam I would call Pauter Machine and see what they recommend.
Rockers I would go the 1.7 rockers setup with spacers & 911 adjusters.
Push rods will depend on cam and the required springs for the cam.

[vwbaker83]

I did not see lifters described as being tool steel on European motorwork's website. which ones are they? What is the longevity of the 39g ones?

[vwbaker83]

I know I'm needy, but does anyone know of a good way to find the 1.7 rockers? They are hard to find. Afraid I may have to go to junkyard.

[Type 4 Unleashed]

He doesn't have the Tool Steel lifters listed on his site yet, but does have them, I've had them in my hands. Let me clarify the Thorsen Pierper Tool Stell lifters are Type 1 lifters will require the lifter bores to be bushed to be used.

Here is one of my builds that I went with Udo Becker Type 1 Tool Steel lifters, the bronze bushings were made and installed by EMW, as are the bushings for the 356 Style lifters.



The 39g Porsche 356 style lifters I don't believe are currently available

They also carry the 1.7 rockers, bushings & 911 adjusters and are able to do the machining for the 911 adjusters.

[Clatter]

IMHO, while the lifter bushing routine is very nice, and essential when a build is at a very high performance level,
I'll call it overkill for a mild street 2056.

No reason why a regular type 4 lifter set-up can't work.
Cam and lifter destruction is not as common as it once was now that the 'oil issue' (zinc) has been addressed.

I would, however, buy cam and lifters from the same place.
Have the same set-up with a Web 494, but have yet to run it.
My plan was to use heater boxes.
Had a real header been in the cards,
my choice would have been a 163/86b.
That's what Web would recommend.
FWIW, you can call Webcam, and talk to them on the phone, and get good advice on cam selection(!)


Be ready to buy pushrods and springs/retainers/keepers, too..

[Type 4 Unleashed]

I think you missed his point, he spoke about maybe later rebuilding to a 2270 with a cam change to meet the demands of the larger motor, and would go Ceramics if they were still available just to be able to change cams at any time and doesn't have to worry about the expense of lifters every cam change, then there's the break in issue. But the Ceramics are no longer available unless some come up used, or some one is holding on to a NOS set that they finally let go $$$, but I haven't seen any for some time. So I suggested the Tool Steel lifters, that will allow cam changes with the same lifters saving him money in the long run. He's thinking ahead which I think is very smart.

The tool steel lifters I used, I assembled with a ZDDP assembly lube, I used Brad Penn 20/50 with the ZDDP, with Dbl springs, started it up and let it idle while I set the carbs and that was my break=in.

IMHO, while the lifter bushing routine is very nice, and essential when a build is at a very high performance level,
I'll call it overkill for a mild street 2056.

No reason why a regular type 4 lifter set-up can't work.
Cam and lifter destruction is not as common as it once was now that the 'oil issue' (zinc) has been addressed.

I would, however, buy cam and lifters from the same place.
Have the same set-up with a Web 494, but have yet to run it.
My plan was to use heater boxes.
Had a real header been in the cards,
my choice would have been a 163/86b.
That's what Web would recommend.
FWIW, you can call Webcam, and talk to them on the phone, and get good advice on cam selection(!)


Be ready to buy pushrods and springs/retainers/keepers, too..

[Piledriver]

Didn't someone offer std T4 size lifters in tool steel awhile back?

The VW size ceramics offered by the current seller cost ~2X what the same costs for domestic apps last I looked.

[vwbaker83]

Would a competent enough machinist be able to bush the engine locally? Or is it vital to have an experienced vw guy do it? Will type 1 lifters change the geometry somehow by having a wider foot, or is it the same width as a type 4 with a slimmer top end? Finally how much will the push rod length be changed, a lot, little, or next to nothing?
The reason I am going with a stock displacement is because this is my first vw engine, and do not want to overlook something building a stroker. If it seems doable, I will probably build a 2270 right off the bat. Just kind of think I should earn my stripes, feel what a 2056 is like in a beetle, then when I'm good and ready drop a stroker crank in, get a good cam and heads.

[Type 4 Unleashed]

I don't remember a Type lV Tool Steel.

There's the T-Rex edibles in Tool Steel and the Type lV with the Ceramic puck on the lifters and won't make them unless they have a bunch of pre-paid orders which they don't seem to ever get, even their Tool Steel lifters are outrageously over priced.

Type lV lifters I believe have a .943" dia, where Type 1 are around 1.100", and no it doesn't change the geo, but it does give more surface area for the cam lobe to ride on, which distributes the spring pressure much better for better wear.

I'd go the 2056 first time around as the learning curve, and so your able to drive it, with a 2270 you'll have much more torque and will need a much better clutch and especially a tranny that will be able to handle it which are a lot more money, so that should be something you will have to also research.

As for a competent machinist, maybe, but then your going to pay an arm & leg, you'll be paying for the time of making jigs and set-up then theirs trial and error, nothing beats experience.

[vwbaker83]

Thank you! Good to get answers here, especially when my restoration is nearly complete and my attention will shift to transaxle and engine. I have questions about 914 cylinder heads which I will start another thread for if I cant find the answers here in another one. The lifters I felt were an item I didn't want to skimp on.

[Type 4 Unleashed]

I would just change the title to something like "My Engine Build Seeking Advice and Other Questions" and post your build here all in one Topic, and start a new trans topic in the Transaxle forum. You may want to do a heavy duty tranny from the very beginning, and now that I think about it, you may want to go ahead and just build the 2270 from the start, in the long run you'll save a lot of money, not having to re-do so much. Were all here to help, so helping with a 2056 or a 2270 will get you the same help.

And you have to post pictures, you know the saying a picture is worth a thousand words.

[vwbaker83]

Yeah I have been thinking about just jumping to the 2270. How can I change the title of the thread? Don't see an edit button for that. I will definitely post pics and info regarding the transaxle, engine, and car itself. I was going to get a good transaxle to start with anyway, so I guess if its not too crazy, I'll go that route.

[Piledriver]

Edit/rename your first post.