Ghia Road Course Setup

[Racer156]

Here’s a pic of exactly what I wanted to do:
https://pin.it/44t2qngkklvvkk

[Racer156]

Here’s another angle on the mendola set up. It looks like it has a bit more support around the shock mount area. What do you guys think? Looks like it would be hard to break the shock support to me....
https://pin.it/sebibnayjqvsfn

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Here’s another angle on the mendola set up. It looks like it has a bit more support around the shock mount area. What do you guys think? Looks like it would be hard to break the shock support to me....
https://pin.it/sebibnayjqvsfn

That the connection to the shock tower in the Mendola "Stiffy" is somewhat trianglulated to spread the loading around but at different angles; the Mendola bars should be much stronger than the other non-triangulated Kaffer/Truss bars. Both styles have the cross piece joining the two forgings together but still... the loading will be in the torsion housing then into the pan.

002 - Copy.JPG

One other thing you should look into is the hook shaped connection of the bottom of the torsion bar housing outboard ends which connect to the underside of the ends of the rear of the pan (this is a type 1 early '70s pan in the pix)... they are known to break. In Jeff Hibbard's off-road book he welded a secondary plate between the torsion bar and the pan as a backup for this very reason. This is also because the loading is going through the torsion bar center and end points to the pan (probably) will be torsionally also unless you are rear ended or slide into something backwards.

Lee

[Racer156]

Hmmm.....okay, I think I’ll keep the torsion bars then. Too bad, going coil-overs on all 4 corners would have been sweet....maybe I’ll do a combo like these German guys:
https://pin.it/o76iovr74cxlcv
https://pin.it/tqltdx5vqlvd2z

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The coil overs, I think it was what you showed, look to be OK assuming you want to go that way. Coil springs are also torsional like the straight torsion bars but are wound in a circle so they behave differently and (I think) are smoother acting. The overload style of (helper) coil overs are not really that good as they defeat somewhat the torsion bars and try to take over so the two "springs" kind of work against each other. Sometimes it is visually hard to tell the difference.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it. Lee

[Piledriver]

I would love to show you a t3 rear torsion, but I modded the actual shock mount angle on mine, so pics of it are a poor example.
The t3 upper shock mount is double shear,which is really required for coil overs.
(my torsion bars are now my swaybars, sorta, work like 4-way coil over springs, resist motion from static)
TOS and its great library of pictures has been down a few days now, I'll link something when TOS comes back up.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

"...(my torsion bars are now my swaybars, sorta, work like 4-way coil over springs, resist motion from static) …"

This I thought was an interesting statement. Back in the late 30s and into the 40's/50's when they were changing from solid axle to IFS one of the things they discovered (as I remember) was that the sold beams did do some work transferring loads from the working side to the lighter side which (if I remember correctly) is where the sway bars came from. Since the VW front beam is a solid mount but the loading from the moving ends (as I remember) didn't originally come via. the body but were introduced later on. The rear is a similar thing as there are two torsion bars on one through bar.

My question is then did you soften up on the rear torsion bars so not only would they not stifle the coil springs and are you also adding sway bars to spread some loading.

This is just a question more out of ignorance as I didn't get into VW until almost ready to retire and then learned more thereafter. I was around all kinds of racing most of my lift but not directly involved (a long story) but not so with VWs... where I live more people interested in them (as a serious racing forum) later than other vehicles but when they did they were also handicapped as "where did they fit in".

As you know amateur racing also is money controlled like Pro racing just now as much by companies but that is changing now too.

Lee

[Piledriver]

The torsion bars are stock, and slid into place with no load after the car settled, this is helped out back by adjustable spring plates, which get locked down after the bars are in/car settles.. I have tried running with both positive and negative preload, any difference it makes is too subtle to really feel.

Interestingly, I now have a pretty huge selection of "sway bar" sizes if I ever wanted to go there.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The torsion bars are stock, and slid into place with no load after the car settled, this is helped out back by adjustable spring plates, which get locked down after the bars are in/car settles.. I have tried running with both positive and negative preload, any difference it makes is too subtle to really feel.

Interestingly, I now have a pretty huge selection of "sway bar" sizes if I ever wanted to go there.

I forgot about playing with the preload and being able to add or decrease it at will. I don't see many adjuster spring plates being used any more as from what I have been told the adjustable spring plates usually last too long with what I do.

I guess I am just too use to once you set the preload and both sides of the car being tied together with a common doodie therefore sharing any action. I had a couple MIIs that I wanted to play with but the EX wasn't going for it.

Thanks for the reply so fast.

Lee

[Racer156]

Interesting. So is that what you think these euro guys are doing?
https://pin.it/rjjvlfxe4cux2q
https://pin.it/3bhljeaqvmq7pr

Looks like there is no rear sway bar, so maybe they are using the torsion bar as a sway bar also? Seems like it would be hard to set up with both, as the torsion bar and the coiliver together set the ride height and I guess everything else. I’m not so sure what the big advantage called out on page 2 is anymore if you have to fiddle with both. The coilivers alone would allow for a lot of adjustability but if you have to run them in conjunction with the torsion bars it seems like that is mitigated somewhat. Maybe set the car very low on torsion bars alone and then use the coil overs to set the ride height?

Maybe I’ll just go with adjustable spring plates and a good set of shocks......problem is I can’t find a good set of coilivers for the front only, they seem to come 4 to a set.....

[DORIGTT]

The sway bar is mounted under the torsion tube and attached to the springplates. Look up a 944sway at for a better picture of it.

I’ve circled the bracket and pointed out the bar in the photos you shared.

[Racer156]

Oh shoot. Your right. I should have at least picked out the bracket......

[CobraJet]

Damn that look super! Wish mine looked that way.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

DORIGTT, your truss bar is a little different than a lot of the commercial ones in several ways. One of the ways is that the bar between the two shock mounts and the bars from the trans mounts join at the shock mount. I was told that was a no-no mainly because of the angle being too wide to be not as effective and maybe spreading or tugging the shock towers together because of it but it looks like the cross bar might be negating some of that.

Did you box the towers just-in-case? Right, wrong, or indifferent it is very Interesting (this is an old term has now taken on a different meaning, recently, than what it used to mean so... in this case it is not political or being judgmental just discussing the concept)!

Lee

[DORIGTT]

Hey Ol'fogasaurus,
That's not my vehicle. I was just marking up the photos provided.
I do plan to run a similar 5 bar setup, and was just looking last night at the backside for possible enclosing that area.
That being said, I don't believe any of the Kafer Cup race cars had additional bracing. I may be wrong, but I'll check with some of the folks on another group I'm in.
Kevin.