Another 2270 Build - Several Questions

[blown59]

This build is going in my 914 with a 1.8. I have been researching for quite some time now... Here, 914World, The Samba...

I have a 1.8 in my 914 and plan on using it for the basis of my build.
- 96mm Keith Black 80mm stroke w/22mm
- Stock Cylinders Bored for the 96
- Type 4 2.0 H-Beam 5.325 balanced
- 78mm Crank reweld 2.0 Journals
- 2.0 Heads 3 or 5 angle Valve job
44 or 46mm Intake
38mm Exhaust
Port Matched and Polish
Dual Spring w/Chromoly Retainers
- Webcam 163/86b
- 44 Weber IDF
- Tangerine header/exhaust
- Stock oil cooler with the addition of a small external or possibly just adding a fan to the stock

I chose to stick with the 2.0 rods because I dont want a reduced base circle for my cam.

My goal is 185 HP and 185 FT/LB with the intent of wanting decent gas mileage, reliability and longevity. Its my belief with the right parts, this is attainable. 200+ HP engines are out there, surely this isnt a difficult feat, just a matter of knowing what my next steps are.

This is where I get lost and Im not sure how to complete the rest of the build.

Being that the exhaust is the issue for the heads, is there any advantage to running 46mm intake or stick with 44?

What compression do I run? 8:1? 8.5:1? 9:1? 9.5? 10?
What is the advantage or disadvantage to the above compressions?

Flycut or no? If so, how much?

What deck height?

What ignition? Distributor? Electronic?

What about my tin? What modifications if any will need to be made?

And if anyone sees fault in my direction so far with the goals I have, please correct me.

Thanks.

[V8Nate]

I would say to start with mock it up so you can see what you have for deck height, that will give you one piece of the puzzle to figure out your compression ratio, how much if any to fly cut your heads and so forth. As far as compression ratio goes I would say go with what the cam calls for and calculate in your elevation and fuel you have available in your area. There are far more people here that know alot more than myself im still jr engine builder in my own opinion so hope that helps a little and best of luck im tuning in!

[blown59]

I havent even reached jr level yet, this is my first build. What youre saying does somewhat make sense and I guess thats where my inexperience comes in. My thought was to get all my ducks in a row to make one purchase for all parts at the same time. I was hoping to be able to buy whatever necessary shims and such, so all parts were on hand. I suppose a few additional purchases here and there wont kill me. Its my understanding the 163/86b likes a higher compression though I dont know what that is? 8.5? 9? 10.5? All of which are higher than stock.

[V8Nate]

My 86a called for 8.5-9.1 cr. I got lucky with my setup, when I mocked it up I had a slight positive deck so I just shimmed the jugs to get .055 deck. I can't remember my head cc's but I came out with 8.4-1 which is close enough for me, I also planned to boost it when i built it so I think I'll be alright. Its always nice to pick up everything at once but I always find myself needing to make a few orders per engine

[blown59]

Nate, thanks for the input, its much appreciated. Did you need to modify the tin at all? Someone told me they thought I would need to, or rather the original tin wouldnt work... I dont see where anything would be changing externally with this build, so I wouldn't think its necessary... Maybe you or someone else can provide more info?

Anyone have any input as to my intake valve size question? Or the need to flycut if at all?

[V8Nate]

Nate, thanks for the input, its much appreciated. Did you need to modify the tin at all? Someone told me they thought I would need to, or rather the original tin wouldnt work... I dont see where anything would be changing externally with this build, so I wouldn't think its necessary... Maybe you or someone else can provide more info?

Anyone have any input as to my intake valve size question? Or the need to flycut if at all?

The only part of the tin i had to modify was my Chinese 36hp empi shroud. Had to trim on the bottom (case side) to bolt my alternator up without binding

[blown59]

This is in a VW? Or a 914?

[V8Nate]

This is in a VW? Or a 914?

Mine is in my 66 bug

[blown59]

Then I would think my 914 tin should be fine, thanks

[sideshow]

In the usage of 914 I see no reason to convert to upright, stock tins and cooling is very very well done packaging.

At that goal l would farm out the heads to somebody like HAM or type-4 store, let them decide size and cut.

[Clatter]

This is a deep subject..

There are SO many ways to build a 2270.

Jake used to have a couple different versions - one of which was 185HP.
If i had my druthers, I'd follow his tried/true formula at the type 4 store.

So many ways to skin a cat.

44 x 38 valves can be harder to control with a cam that lifts enough to take advantage of them.
96s supposedly will shroud those valves to a point of diminishing returns anyway.
Then, on the other hand, if you are building for big revs, and popping for a big Tangerine exhaust..
You are then starting into the territory where type 1 lifters might be needed, and other exotica.
It becomes another animal entirely when you build it to spin.
Lightweight valvetrain, uprated thru-bolts, ARP headstuds, piston squirters, etc.

Stock rods are very heavy, will need clearanced, and better bolts, so it's better (and eventually cheaper?) to go aftermarket.
At that point, you're better off getting into a type 1 journal to keep strength in the crank.

It goes on and on.
If you even mentioned the words 'Fuel economy' in your post,
You're not into building something exotic.
And it's your first build??

The way you will most surely get what you really want,
185 reliable HP, daily driver durability, and NO painful learning lessons,
Just get out your platinum card and order a 2270-185 kit from the type 4 store.
It could very well be far cheaper in the end.
I'm not affiliated BTW, just a fan.
Your post here never showed me a more perfect example of what that kit was for...

[Ephry73]

I had a similar setup to this, except the heads were just 42x36 with 3 angle cut and the CR was over 9:1 static, can't find my notes on it. The thing pushed out 182ft/lb on regular gas. On a 66 bug even 170ft/lb will be a blast. ignition is key for this and making sure you keep it all bolted up without leaks. MPGs will come naturally.

[cal 67]

42x36 with good work around the seats. Never flycut, unless there's absolutely no other way. Be creative. The heads are too thin as-is

I didn't know a 5.325" 2.0 journal rod existed off-the-shelf...

Boring 93 or 94s to 96 is an expensive, unneeded endeavor. Buy EMW 96s and be done with it. You're paying $300+ to wait MONTHS to get your barrels back, in some cases. And you risk a fin or skirt getting cracked. I've had many damaged cylinders getting honing work.

185/185 is very specific. You'll need porting for one, and someone who has the means to QUANTIFY their result, instead of put a stencil on the ports and hog away. The intake port diameter should still be round, and ~37mm in diameter. Not bigger or smaller. Also, you'll make an even TQ/HP at 5,500 (5454 exact), so cam accordingly. I saw 86B, which peaks above 6K, you you may be overcamming.

Compression depends on cam, but with a 5,500 rpm cam, you should not be under 9.0:1 on premium fuel.

The rest is trivial...

[Ephry73]

42x36 with good work around the seats. Never flycut, unless there's absolutely no other way. Be creative. The heads are too thin as-is

I didn't know a 5.325" 2.0 journal rod existed off-the-shelf...

Boring 93 or 94s to 96 is an expensive, unneeded endeavor. Buy EMW 96s and be done with it. You're paying $300+ to wait MONTHS to get your barrels back, in some cases. And you risk a fin or skirt getting cracked. I've had many damaged cylinders getting honing work.

185/185 is very specific. You'll need porting for one, and someone who has the means to QUANTIFY their result, instead of put a stencil on the ports and hog away. The intake port diameter should still be round, and ~37mm in diameter. Not bigger or smaller. Also, you'll make an even TQ/HP at 5,500 (5454 exact), so cam accordingly. I saw 86B, which peaks above 6K, you you may be overcamming.

Compression depends on cam, but with a 5,500 rpm cam, you should not be under 9.0:1 on premium fuel.

The rest is trivial...

Couldn't have said it better.