2084 Turbo Build

[Clonebug]

Make sure you get actual 1.25 rockers. That is the dilemma I am in due to the advertised 1.25 rockers actually measuring out at 1.38:1.
My Engle W-100 is only good for 1:1 or 1.25:1 rockers and I ended up with two sets that came out at 1.38-1.4:1 actual. I did run it that way for a season with no ill effects but it is being looked at soon.

If I were you I would get a cam designed for 1.4 rockers and use that instead. You will have an easier time finding the correct rockers.
My feeling is they are easier on the valve train due to the lift being in the rocker and not the cam and lifters.

Your Web 218 has .4136 lift at the cam and will be .515 with 1.25 rockers. With 1.38-1.4 you will have between .568-.576 at the valve if your rockers are not 1.25:1 ratio. that is a LOT of lift and the cam is going to be pretty harsh I feel.

Look at the FK-41, FK-42 or FK-65. Get them in 112 lobe centers if you want.

I'm trying the FK-42 with 112 LC's. It will give me about the same lift as my W-100 with the 1.4's but just a little more duration.
Get a set of 1.4 rockers and set up the geometry correctly and you should have a nice quiet valve train with plenty of lift.

I bought a set of the chinese 1.25 rockers on Ebay and they are decent quality but they ended up being 1.38:1 ratio.

[buguy]

Your not going to make 7000 rpm with a 218. I can't do 7000 with my web 163 and it has nearly 10 degrees more duration than the 218.
From what I've read the 218 is awesome though.
I agree with clone. If i were to do it again i would run a 1.4 rocker and cam designed for those.

[kangaboy]

Alright, I have spent some more time looking over cams, but at this point I just cant fully wrap my head around it. I need hands on experience to be able to really see what a cam is doing or how it drives and then maybe I can make future decisions based on what I'll learn. With that said, and going off of what I have read most recently, I'm leaning towards a Web 86b with 1.4:1 rockers. I do realize that there is picking and choosing with a cam...kinda like Fast, Cheap, Reliable. Cept with a cam is like Low End Torque, High End Torque, Streetable??? IDK, just thinking out loud at this point...I'm not looking for the end all be all cam, just something that will work well with my engine build at this point.

So 86B with 1.4 rockers, Yay or Nay? And if Nay, gimme the cons.

EDIT: Still sticking with the 112 lobe centers

[buguy]

I say go for the 86b. FK8 or 10 would do what you want too, but i personally would chose the 86b myself.

[kangaboy]

Called WEB and got the 86b ordered with 112 lobe centers on a EP-12 blank.
Now to snatch up some 1.4 CB Rockers, light weight lifters, straight cut cam gears, dual valve springs, aluminum push rods, SS push rod tubes and an oil pump (when they are back in stock), and we should be good to bolt together the long block. Will have to do some valve train math and cut push rods to length, but all in due time.

[buguy]

They will supply lifters too if you ask. Not for free of course. I had them send me some so i knew they would be the correct ones for their blank.

[madmike]

why alum push rods and dual springs?

[buguy]

Good control and lightweight! And quiet!

[madmike]

I cringe when I hear aluminum I always used chromoly steel and I've seen guys bend them

[kangaboy]

Dual springs because I want to be able to rev the piss out of it. Are you suggesting HD singles? I just didn't want there to be any question about valve lift, and if i end up going to 30psi of boost, I can only imagine it would be useful there too.
Was thinking the Super Aluminums from CB if it makes a difference...not just standard aluminums. CB says they can be used with dual springs.
I may call WEB back and talk to them about lifters. I wanted CB lighweights, as thats the reason I ordered it with a EP blank, but I'll give them a follow up and see what kind of deal they have.

[V8Nate]

I've had zero problems with my cb hd tapered p/r's with dual springs on a 86a driven very hard fwiw. I also drilled holes in mine for oil squirters since the cb 1.4's do not have rocker tip oiling

[kangaboy]

Need help with valve springs, as I have never done the math with them before.
So Web recommends installing springs at 1.560" with 170 lbs of seat pressure.
Just using CBs 650 Dual Valve Springs as an example, with an installed height of 1.540" they will give 160 lbs of seat pressure, and @ .630'' lift will give an open load of 420 lbs. CBs website says they are good up to 0.630" of lift, and with 1.4 rockers on the 86B, I'll be looking at 0.537" of valve lift, so well within the range. It was also suggested by another forum member to have at least 0.08" from coil bind, which I would have, and then some.
So with that said, the 650 doesn't have the suggested install height of Web, and would also have a much lower seat pressure if they were installed to Webs suggestions. Is the alternative be to just shim the springs if they are a little out of spec to bring them to the desired install height and seat pressure? How do you find appropriate springs for each build? Surely my build is not that special and has had to have been done many, many times, but I'm not really finding any other online resources to show me similar numbers.

[Clonebug]

Let's compare the Web 86B to another cam. The 86B has .383" lift at the cam.... exactly like the Engle W-100 cam that I was running. The difference is in the duration. 300* for the Web Vs 276* for the W-100. The Engle is supposed to use 1.1 or 1.25 rockers for a total lift of .420" or .478" "IF" the rockers are what they say they are.
What I found in real life is that 1.25 rockers are lots more than that....on two different sets I measured every rocker arm and they all averaged between 1.37 and 1.4. It kind of throws a monkey wrench into my lift totals.
Since I was in too deep to quit I ended up running a 1.25 cam with 1.38 rockers for a total of .521-.528" lift on a cam designed for 1.25 max.
I put a total of 3600 miles on that setup and taking the engine apart this winter the cam and lifters were all in beautiful shape. They had a total of 43,000 miles on them in a couple different configurations. The rocker arms were perfect.....the lash caps were also perfect....no wear on anything.
I was impressed and so was my builder.
Next to discuss is the springs and the push rods.

I didn't want to cut my heads for dual springs so I ended up trying a set of CB 650 dual springs but I did not use the inner springs. These springs are a lot heavier than your typical single HD spring. We never tested the installed pressure nor the open pressure for that matter....we just ran them.
For pushrods I used a .035" wall CM set I think I bought from CBP.
I had them cut to length after I figured out my geometry.
After the above mileage and 40 if not closer to 50 dyno pulls to 226 crank hp and 26 lbs. boost the engine was pulled apart and inspected. All the valve train was in beautiful shape...no signs of valve float......no bent pushrods....nothing out of the ordinary.

Your cam will have more duration so I don't know what effect that will have on springs.....but the lift is close to the same that I will have. My new cam is a FK-42 with 280 degrees duration and 246 at .050". It's designed for the 1.4 rocker and that's why we switched it out.

I read the cam threads in that other site and just shake my head.......I'm not sure what's more pathetic.....arguing about distributors or cams.......

In the end you just have to try something and see how it works for "you"......quit listening to others opinions...most of those guys haven't got a clue.


Make it fun to drive on the street and reliable......who knows how often you can get to a track to run it.......

[kangaboy]

The 86B has .383" lift at the cam.... exactly like the Engle W-100 cam that I was running.

Hmmm, am I misreading something? The cam card for the 86B says valve lift is 0.494", which translates to 0.537" with 1.4 rockers. Is "lift at the cam" and "valve lift" different?

[V8Nate]

Mine says with 1.5 rockers