More efficient turbo options?

[madmike]

what turbo? ,, I can't remember, I even look in my posts Think It was .48/.57?
Love that Cam, No time to look at the tach when you're shifting gears at that speed

[carsten bb]

anyone ever hear about cx racing? i had been looking for another turbo but didnt want to spend $1800 on a garrett so i searched e-bay for about 3 months learning about turbos. i've been meaning to do an introduction but just have gotten around to it. a little info on my vw... 1970 type 1 bug with 82x92 cb performance gen 4 efi with super pro heads with a GB 5speed. i need to get around and share some of things i've done. been on here for awhile... i know a few of Y'all from all the reading in here. anyhow i thought i had a AGP t3 t4 .63 A/R exhaust and a .70 A/R turbine but the turbine I think was actually a .50. this CX turbo compressor housing is a little bigger than the AGP. i bought 3 other turbo's but there was no way they were gonna fit tucked under the apron. cx is about 40 minutes from me so i was able to go there a couple times and ended up with this 1... paid only $471.00 so we shall see. i think the AGP turbo had a chyna center & AGP compressor housing. i be running again as soon as i get stuff back from getting powdered.

btw... i'm ken

Dual Ball Bearing, Billet Aluminum Compressor Wheel
.60 A/R Compressor Housing
.63 A/R Turbine Housing
T3 Flange to Manifold
4 Bolt 2.5" Downpipe Flange
2.75" Inlet & 2" Outlet
Super Quick and Fast Spool. Stage III Turbine Wheel.
Comes with Oil Feed and Drain Fittings, and Metal Gaskets

Items included in this Item:
Dual Ball Bearing T04E Turbocharger x1
Oil Feed -AN4 Fitting x1
Oil Drain Flange x1
Gaskets x2

Tech Specs:
Air Inlet: 2.75"
Compressed Air Outlet: 2"
Bearing: Dual Ball Bearing
Turbine Housing Flange: T3 Flange
Exhaust Outlet: 4-Bolt Outlet
HP Rating: 350HP
Cooling: Oil Cooled
Compressor: .60 A/R
Turbine: .63 A/R
Compressor Wheel: 82.04mm/57.91mm
Turbine Wheel: 64mm/57.91mm
Ceramic Ball Bearing Billet Wheel T04E Turbo Charger Stage III .63 A/R 4 Bolt

Brand: CXRacing
Product Code: TRB-T04E-6063-4B-RRB
Availability: In Stock

$471.90

A 58mm/58mm turbo like this should support at least +/-500 hp. A Precision 5858 support 620hp. So I think it’s strange that they only say this should support 350hp.
It’s also strange to see the the only turbo recommended on this site is a 13t.........

[Schweg]

Not the only turbo

[buguy]

That's because we have all used it and loved it! I had a TD04..42/.48 and it didn't work as well as the 13t.

[Wally]

I'm just curious what modern, more efficient, turbo would deliver similar behavior to the old IHI turbos many of us have run. I have a good ol' TD04-13t that I got for free but now I'm wondering if I could replace it with so.ething that might produce less heat and deliver the same sort of boost profile.

That turbo is as good as they get imo.

My opinion is that ball bearing turbo's aren't hype at all, but they do not spool sooner because of just the ball-bearing fact is also my limited experience indication. What they do get you is faster boost recovery (between shifts) and maybe more resistent to higher boost pressures, but that last benefit not our game in general I think.

A really more modern turbo is for instance anything in the EFR range (Borg Warner) or the new GTX Gen2 line up (Garrett). Those are full custom though and in the 1,5-2K price range. They flow more and sooner with the right size and do spool sooner because of better aero and lighter materials. Have your cake and eat it too so to speak.

So yes, it does exist and the only downside is that it is expensive as always with these things

[Bruce.m]

To the turbo experts... what about this for a small capacity engine.

It’s from a 1.6ltr engine knocking out 255bhp stock. If your flow is in the right zone, it can be >70% efficient at 2bar (if I’m reading the map correctly!!)

[kwarloc]

Cooling: Oil Cooled
Compressor: .60 A/R
Turbine: .63 A/R
Compressor Wheel: 82.04mm/57.91mm
Turbine Wheel: 64mm/57.91mm
[/quote]
A 58mm/58mm turbo like this should support at least +/-500 hp. A Precision 5858 support 620hp. So I think it’s strange that they only say this should support 350hp.
It’s also strange to see the the only turbo recommended on this site is a 13t.........
[/quote]

my guess is alot of the product description with cx racing is just a general copy and paste and not very specific other than wheel size.

so when u say a 58 / 58 that would be the exducer sides of the wheel that you look at for the performance capabilities? the compressor wheel on this turbo is a little bigger than the 1 i got from cb. i've talked to couple people regarding turbos but they didn't have a full depth of knowledge when it came to these little mini hybrid turbo's.
also... TD04 13t what are the specifics? is the exhaust flange the 04 part? my turbo is an 04 but I've also heard of it being call a T31, the 4 bolt flange is a little smaller opening than the regular 04.

i'm not new to bugs just turbos and EFI and am a sponge when it comes to reading up on STF.

[kwarloc]

what turbo? ,, I can't remember, I even look in my posts Think It was .48/.57?
Love that Cam, No time to look at the tach when you're shifting gears at that speed

i'm actually pretty impressed with the fk-10 and super pro heads. it pulls and pulls and the main reason u need to shift is your going way to fast. i got a butt tach & care to see where i'm going vs looking at a tach. when u grow up racing dirt bikes you learn to know when to shift thru sound & vibrations. driving a vw bug with a motor is just like that... it winds up pretty fast and it's just like constant mesh shifting on a 2stroke dirt bike.

[my_medusa]

To the turbo experts... what about this for a small capacity engine.

It’s from a 1.6ltr engine knocking out 255bhp stock. If your flow is in the right zone, it can be >70% efficient at 2bar (if I’m reading the map correctly!!)

i use the 2074 with billet compressor wheel (so very close to that map) on a 1285cc. the 2080 is a twin scroll with compressor 41/51mm and exhaust with 45/40.5mm, the mini guys are more close to 1,5/1,3bar to reach that 250-255hp. good turbo, weight only 5,8kg with internal wastegate and blow by valve. also small dimensions, light internals. i also used it in 1192/1641cc worked well, for up to 250hp a very quick spool option. but i bett not the "less backpressure" option on a 1600cc but good for low peak rpm engines and stock valve sizes.
i use the same exhaust turbine side and as i know is the 2080 just spooling around 200rpm later and i reach 1,8bar/26psi at 3500rpm on a 1285cc aircooled but it also falls to 1,55bar so even on a 1285cc you can max out that turbo easily. in a non twinscroll world it spools earlier than a k03 single scroll and holds power like a k04 single. the limit with that turbio is the small exhaust turbine wheel. and the header is hart to build but worth it up to 250hp and for sure below. even on my 1200 dual port headed engine it spooled as quick as on the 1285cc.

[Wally]

^^ thats amazing! Twin scroll really helps, even more if you keep headers of each scroll about equal length
The exhaust twin scroll opening on those factory turbine housings are however pretty complicated to build yourself to adapt to an aircooled engine.
My_medusa did an amazing job doing just that. I saw his engine on the dyno last year, very stealth, many kudos!

[Bruce.m]

Thanks, all interesting, especially as from real experience.

The turbo is from the top spec JCW Mini R56 which is 255bhp, the normal Cooper S uses a different turbo & is 205bhp. However the JCW turbo is much less common than the copper S version.

Some tech chat on the topic:
https://www.minitorque.com/threads/r56 ... nfo.31198/

Comparison of similar oem turbos (from the post above)

[my_medusa]

Thanks, all interesting, especially as from real experience.

The turbo is from the top spec JCW Mini R56 which is 255bhp, the normal Cooper S uses a different turbo & is 205bhp. However the JCW turbo is much less common than the copper S version.

Some tech chat on the topic:
https://www.minitorque.com/threads/r56 ... nfo.31198/

Comparison of similar oem turbos (from the post above)

you also can mix the turbos in between, the 2275 turbine can be machined in the housing. there are some wild hybrids around but most are expensive.
but the turbine housing and turbine wheel is the same from S and jcw also 9 blade turbine wheel instead of 11 is available. also you could put every k03/k04 compressor on that turbine. so for example a cooper S turbine and a 2275 compressor (wheel plus housing) could be cheap mixed without buying a minitorque 42mm . thats what they do but they machine the cooper S or JCW compressor housing to match the 2275 compressor wheel. but you could easily just use a cooper s hot side and the S3 cold side and have a 270hp twinscroll. that wheel combination is very common on the mini's.

that could also be a good option in price and power. they call it a 2180
https://shuenk.com/JCW-for-MINI-p303201617