I'm biased to my own creation on shrouds but I think a Horizontal system with the internal vanes on the shroud guiding air to either side of the intake ports so all the head fins get airflow would be my suggestion .
www.apfelbeck.nl
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wreck
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
No matter where you go , there you are !
- Richie
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Yes, it is my understanding that all things like shrinkage, warping and core-shifting have to be considered into the desing of the moulds. I can understand it is o.k. for now when used for designing and fitting all the parts that are necessary to make it function. But for now I think you would make Ludwig proud!Wally wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:10 pmGood question, in fact the foundry asked the same one. But heat treating came with a warning that some edges (fins?) of other parts may droop or have different sizes afterwards... I didn't want to risk that at this stage so for this first one(s), it will just be as cast. If lateron it may found to be benificial, we can always try it in a later batch.
- nogoodwithusernames
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Woah! I remember years ago browsing the apfelbeck website and dreaming about massive T4 motors (still dream about that honestly) awesome to see these still moving along and developing.
- Wally
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Been a few months, but the first head has been machined and its all stored in a CNC program, so the next heads should all be very equal and take less time. So far I could only detect two very small errors which doesn't even need to be cured with the casting, but just some further machining would solve that.
Most all old parts fit like a glove!

I also tried if everything moves freely:
I am still having a hard time finding the right valve sizes tbh though:
Intakes: 36mm, 7mm stem in 112,5-113,0mm length,
Exhaust: 42mm, 7mm stem (or 8mm if need be, but those are heavy), same length.
should not be too difficult you'd think?
Hope to find something stock from another car. If anyone has a idea or source (car,make, model), pls let me know.
The 98mm biral (AA) cylinder fits as well and the fins flow nicely in sync with the curves of the head fins. Yes, I'am nerdy


Just the spark plug needs to be machined slightly less deep next one (or an extra shim for just this one
)

Most all old parts fit like a glove!

I also tried if everything moves freely:
I am still having a hard time finding the right valve sizes tbh though:
Intakes: 36mm, 7mm stem in 112,5-113,0mm length,
Exhaust: 42mm, 7mm stem (or 8mm if need be, but those are heavy), same length.
should not be too difficult you'd think?
Hope to find something stock from another car. If anyone has a idea or source (car,make, model), pls let me know.
The 98mm biral (AA) cylinder fits as well and the fins flow nicely in sync with the curves of the head fins. Yes, I'am nerdy


Just the spark plug needs to be machined slightly less deep next one (or an extra shim for just this one

T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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Eddie010
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Wally,
that looks so cool.
If you need a car to test them in... hahaha
I know the old alfa nord engines have replacement 7mm stem valves, only don t know the lenght.
that looks so cool.
If you need a car to test them in... hahaha
I know the old alfa nord engines have replacement 7mm stem valves, only don t know the lenght.
- Richie
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Exciting!
I'll look around for those valve sizes.
Great machining job!
I'll look around for those valve sizes.
Great machining job!
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Slow 1200
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Wally, it looks like late 70s honda 1.8 engine has an intake valve that's very close to your needs
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Slow 1200
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
I see a Renault exhaust valve that's 40.1 X 7 X 112, and another that's 43.9 X 8 X 112
Ford has a variety of 42 X 8 X 113 and x112 intake valves, not sure you could run those as an exhaust?
Ford has a variety of 42 X 8 X 113 and x112 intake valves, not sure you could run those as an exhaust?
- Wally
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Thanks for the idea guys! 8mm valve stems get heavy pretty quickly, so I hope I don't need that size.
I think it will probably come down to some custom Ferrea valves (blanks), which is ok as well for this purpose. After all this effort, I don't want to compromise on valves.
I think it will probably come down to some custom Ferrea valves (blanks), which is ok as well for this purpose. After all this effort, I don't want to compromise on valves.
- MegaRookie
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:18 pm
Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Insane project Walter! This would really be an unique engine when its running. Just curious, (could be that missed it), but how do you guys plan to make sure the cams align perfectly?
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Typ 4
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
There are a few valve catalogues around, TRW had one a few years back that had all the details, sizes etc.
SI have one too although not that comprehensive but you never know what you can find.
http://sivalves.com/catalog.html
SI have one too although not that comprehensive but you never know what you can find.
http://sivalves.com/catalog.html
- Wally
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Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Thanks Andreras, seems a very complete source!
For now, the first head will probably be done with Ferrea blanks after all as that is what the machine shop uses a lot.
Hi Mark,
Cam alignment is indeed an important one and also something that is hard to engineer completely beforehand (if it was enough).
For now, there will be a thick, very sturdy 7075 H6 cylinder bank plate on top (8 ARP studs, 4 thicker dowels) to connect both heads. The connected intake manifold (per bank) and excellent machining of the case, cylinder and heads should do the rest.
But only (testing) time will tell of course...
For now, the first head will probably be done with Ferrea blanks after all as that is what the machine shop uses a lot.
Hi Mark,
Cam alignment is indeed an important one and also something that is hard to engineer completely beforehand (if it was enough).
For now, there will be a thick, very sturdy 7075 H6 cylinder bank plate on top (8 ARP studs, 4 thicker dowels) to connect both heads. The connected intake manifold (per bank) and excellent machining of the case, cylinder and heads should do the rest.
But only (testing) time will tell of course...
- Wally
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Happy to report that all 4 heads have now been cast and machined!
So finally could test fit 4 actual (new) heads
Pictures for those without FB


Next stop will be having the camshaft (blanks) made and the intake manifolds now I have two heads installed per side for measurements
So finally could test fit 4 actual (new) heads
Pictures for those without FB


Next stop will be having the camshaft (blanks) made and the intake manifolds now I have two heads installed per side for measurements
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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Typ 4
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:17 pm
Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Stunning, what a great job !
Perseverance paid off, it will be a beast
Perseverance paid off, it will be a beast
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Typ 4
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:17 pm
Re: www.apfelbeck.nl
Always loved these images in his book, it's great how you got this done






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