Parallel front King Pin Suspension

[woodsbuggy1]

Who out there is running parallel front suspension on their buggy or Baja?
I will be building a new buggy next winter and am curious about the pros and cons of parallel front suspension.
This will be with combo spindles and 1x4 front arms.
Thanks
Kenric

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Since I was not sure what you meant by "Parallel King Pin front suspension" I did some looking to be sure and it looks like what you are talking about is dealing with the two types of early "Bug" suspensions.

My impression depends on what you are going to use them for. K&L has it's short comings in some types of use while BJ front suspensions have weaknesses in other uses.

I play off-road on the sand and run BJ front suspension, but I also have the components for changing over to a Thing front suspension which protects the lower BJ pullout from the arms. You also need to put stops on the arm and beam and change shocks and maybe get the kit to change the upper torsion bars for ride differences due to potential front weight changes (moving the fuel tank out of the front for example. Doing some work on stiffening the shock tower also needs to be done.

The earlier suspension also needs shock tower stiffening and might need the torsion bar stop fixing for example.

These are just a few things that may need to be done depending on what the use of the "toy" is going to be.

Combo spindles: (" https://www.bing.com/search?q=combo+spi ... 3a&pc=LCTS) for example.

While I have seen them used on Rails (but maybe on 2 buggies) but not so far have I seen them on a Baja (there is one build here that may have done it, I will have to do a search to see which Baja it is).

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Try this starting at the back two pages: https://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopi ... start=2415

Lee

[woodsbuggy1]

I will be using a 6" over beam, coil over front shocks, combo spindles and 1 " wider by 4" longer front arms( same setup I have been running for 10 years) just interested in hearing more about parallel suspension(same center spacing on front beam and spindles). We ride in the woods where there are rocks, drop offs and down trees. A ball joint front suspension doesn't last long in this environment. I talked with the folks at Kartek, they told me that everyone uses parallel front beams because suspension geometry is much improved. Just looking for real world experience.
Thanks Again
Kenric

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The parallel beams are good... not perfect but good. Some more things that might help: https://www.bing.com/search?q=fixes+to+ ... 43&pc=LCTS

The BJ beam conversion to a "Thing" setup solves some of the issues with the stock beams but again, it still has it's limitations also. The earlier (parallel) beams, which I think you are talking about, is not perfect also.

As I said, I run on the sand but did know people who do the rock thing and again, not they are not perfect either but good and I think there are fixes that could help you. When I ran on the hard stuff it was with a '42 MB military jeep I bought from former relatives. It failed also and, since I don't drive hard it failed prematurely (it wasn't that old when I was doing this in the '60s,) but I was told there were fixes for it also.

There is a lot of aftermarket stuff out there but $$$$.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

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Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Deleted

Lee

[woodsbuggy1]

Lee,
Thanks for your input, hopefully your knowledge will help someone else.
I am working on an off road tube chassis buggy. We do not use any factory VW suspension components.
Kenric

[Steve Arndt]

Dusty Mojave (I think is the user name?) on Samba has posted about the equal spacing beam geometry.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

We have had rails in our group (only one rail left now as they are now going to the off-shore toys). I have seen rails with everything up front including A-arm style front suspensions but, again, the commercial toys ($$$$) are even being used by us old farts (not me).

Sorry about the bug stuff but some of the words used sounded like bug conversions which rails were using bug stuff (getting hard to find now as well as expensive).

I hope more info comes from the others who post here.... sorry!

Lee

[Steve Arndt]

The idea is to have a more optimal caster change for off road handling as the suspension goes through extreme angle changes.
The front end from the side view is a basic 4 bar linkage system for statics.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

https://www.bing.com/search?q=vw+front+ ... dcb75a3477

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=vw ... RE&first=1

The A-arm seems to be more popular right now but the old style based off the bug styles are still used.

For what it is worth:

The taper in of the lower tubing to the suspension starts at the seating which needs a spread between seats for the shifter and, if you are using them, the turning brakes. Then the where the different pedal ASSY which can effect the narrowing of the front tubing.

The top of the rear hoop should be ~4" higher than the top of the head of the tallest driver/passenger sitting in the mounted seats. The reason for the 4" is on a hard roll or endo the body can still stretch even with shoulder harnesses. Add to that the helmet and the possibility of the cage digging in. Some builders go to 6" just for safety purposes.

Then comes the second tubing which has it's distance from the lower beam, shape and proper supporting then to the down bend to the beam.

For what it is worth.

Lee

[woodsbuggy1]

Lee and Steve,
Thanks for your input, I have read all the posts from Dusty pertaining to this subject. I plan to weld the beam to chassis so want to make sure I do it right. I understand the theory and geometry but sometimes things work differently than what we expected. It will probably be October until this build actually takes shape, I am in the planning and design phase and want to have most of my parts built before we start on chassis. Any input and experience is always welcome.
Thanks Again
Kenric

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The welding of the beam may not be a good idea for several reasons one of which is in case the beam gets damaged and needs to be replaced. I've seen several 'rails over the years get the beam bent and rather than unclamping it they had to go through the beams removal by doing some cutting the old one out, then a new beam had to be welded in replacing the dam(n)aged one.

Is the welding of the beam stronger... I don't know but fixing the welded-in damage is more involved and usually takes longer/not as simple.

It's up to you but just some things to additionally think about.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

If I remember correctly the beam lays back at a 12-degree angle.

Lee