Need two turnkey Hi-perf motors...help!!!!

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Wed Aug 30, 2000 1:19 pm

I'm new..so take it easy on me.

I am searching for two complete T4 motors with at least 200 HP. They will be used in
550 spyder replicas and will be mated to 914
transmissions. These will be limited use vehicles and will probably only see 2500-5000 mi/yr. Any good source suggestions will be appreciated. Prefer a calif shop, but open to others.

What should I expect to pay for them?

Any experiance with twin-plug heads?

Oscar

BUGMAN2366 · Post by **BUGMAN2366** » Thu Aug 31, 2000 7:35 am

ENGINES LIKE THIS ARE NOT EASY TO FIND. I would expect that someone would have to pay in the neighborhood of 8- 10,000 dollars for something like that. I will warn you now...The first 3 engines I had built I "CHEEZED" on do not do it. Get it done by someone who knows a type 4. By the looks of the information on this forum, someone cam help you. see you around,solomon

vw@micron.net · Post by **vw@micron.net** » Thu Aug 31, 2000 8:45 am

I would like to build a pair of engines for you, but I do not have the credentials yet. Jacob Raby might be able to help you. You can also tackle the project yourself if you are prepared to research and spend the money in the right places. Our friend Oliver Knuf in Germany can build a killer combo for you, but shipment from Recklinghausen Germany to US is kinda expensive. Not terrible when considering a 8K$ engine though.

Beetle08 · Post by **Beetle08** » Thu Aug 31, 2000 10:54 am

Jerry at Northwest Connecting Rod Services in Seattle (206.763.2487) Top notch work. He can do it. Tell him that I recommendend him to you. He has an exceptional reputation, and will not sell you anything he does not stand behind. He has built stock and high performance motors (Typ 1, 4) to friends, family and me several times. Not once have I had a problem.

Please give him a call and tell him I sent you (Mauricio). Also, be forwarned as he is very low tech. No e-mail or internet, and if he puts you on hold, also don't dismay as he has people constantly going in and out of his shop.

Good luck!

Mauricio
2200cc (built by Jerry) Type 4.

[This message has been edited by Beetle08 (edited 08-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Beetle08 (edited 08-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Beetle08 (edited 08-31-2000).]

kokanee · Post by **kokanee** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 6:07 am

Oscar-

I am considering building a spyder, and was wanting to use all 914 components, mainly the drivetrain, suspension and brakes. Is there anyone who makes a kit to utilize these parts?

thanks,

K-

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 7:46 am

Vintage Spyders located in so cal just introduced a new chassis for their spyder that will utilize a porsche 914 (901) tranny and can mate easily to a 914 motor. I am currently exploring the use of 914 trailing arms. I suggest to check out the link below and give them a call. (The light blue metallic car on the site is the one I recently sold).
http://www.my550spyder.com/Vintage/Vintage.htm

Oscar

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Wed Sep 06, 2000 3:07 pm

Thanks to all who responded and to those who e-mailed me directly. This forum has been a wealth information. Great site.

I have had several conversations with Jake and we've mutually agreed that he can build what I'm looking for, therefore I have contracted Jake Raby to supply my turn-key motors. I will keep everyone here abreast of progress and results.

Oscar

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Tue Nov 28, 2000 7:10 am

Jake is about 4-6 weeks from completing my two turn-key engines. Engines are 2.7L type IV "twin plug" monsters. It has been a real pleasure dealing with Jake. Hope to post some pictures soon.

Oscar

vw@micron.net · Post by **vw@micron.net** » Wed Nov 29, 2000 9:34 am

Are you going to dyno test these combos?
What valvetrain setups are you using?

I would like to see a before and after dyno test with the twin plugs used, and not used. If you can make it fair and not have like 2 crank degrees firing later on the further plugs.
This brings up the point. Are you going to delay the second set of plugs like an RX7? Or fire them at the same time?
Steve Arndt

Spyke · Post by **Spyke** » Wed Nov 29, 2000 12:24 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vw@micron.net:
I would like to see a before and after dyno test with the twin plugs used, and not used. If you can make it fair and not have like 2 crank degrees firing later on the further plugs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why isn't it "fair" to optimize the dual plug set up? (Not that I know why delaying the second set would help on a piston engine) Isn't that kind of like saying you want to compare a multiple spark discharge ignition to a normal ignition, but to make it fair you want the MSD to only fire once?

I'm no expert, but I guess I don't see dual plugs as a mod that, by itself, adds a bunch of power. I see it more like an octane booster; it's something that allows you to get away with other mods that make power.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the big reason to go with dual plugs because you're having detonation problems in a large bore/high compression cylinder? (Or, conversely, you want to run higher compression or more aggressive timing?) If that's the case, the single plug/dual plug comparison seems somewhat trivial. It's the mods the dual plug set up allows you to get away with that count, right? Anyone?

vw@micron.net · Post by **vw@micron.net** » Wed Nov 29, 2000 1:43 pm

With poor combustion chamber design and large quench area, flame propagation is slow. This is the reason large bore 911 engines (I think since they went above 95mm from the factory?) used dual plugs with their old 2 valve engine design (new 996 does not use twin ignition, it has a 4 valve design with the plug in the center). I asked of before and after testing because I want to actually see if with the giant 103 bore IF(F) twin plugging is worth while. If they are fired in parallel, at the same time, then comparing with twin ignition and without is valid. That would show an apples to apples setup. If a special timing curve or offset is used on the second plugs to fire them slightly after the first burn in started, it would not be as direct of a comparison. Still either way I want to know numbers. One of my parts suppliers in Germany suggested I not use 103 size bore because he does not like the large quench area and poor flame travel. We have no way to get around this with 1933 combustion chamber design, but we optimize what we can.

I am sure there will be a power gain. I have read quite a bit about 911 owners that upgrade to twin ignition and notice the difference.

Also before airplanes take off they must kill one magneto and test run the engine on one set of plugs, and do the same with the other. They report RPM drops and power drops when selecting single ignition only. This to me shows there is room for using it.

On mid 1980s Nissan 4 cylinder pickup engines they designed the engine as a single plug engine. They found out later that this chamber design wouldn't allow them to pass tighter emissions standards. They simply added twin plugs without changing the chamber design and the engine carried them a few more years. More proof.

No matter how things shake out, it is really cool that we can try out modern technologies on your old hot rods and extract every last cent of power from them.