411 412 What should I buy?

[dharmabum]

Hello,

I am and type 2 VW owner of many years. I want a daily driver and I recently took interest in the 411/412's. I know nothing about them and have a few questions for you guys in the know. I am spacifically looking for a outstanding condition 4 door with A/C and Auto.

1. Is there a "best" year
2. What do i look for when inspecting
3. What to stay away from
4. Any problem consistant with any year
5. any other suggestions.

Thanks,

Vince

[raygreenwood]

Body parts are hard to find for all of them...hardest for the 2 door. Interior parts are non-existant. Trim parts likewise. They cars were relativly complex compared to a bug. More are starting to come out of the woodwork, so you may find one. 95% were with automatic. Perhaps 25% with AC....most of that will not be working, but should be able to be repaired. None you will find will be a clean it up and drive it scenario. All will need extensive work. The more original and lower miles...the more work it will need...because everything is old. Great cars. Just be prepared. Ray

[Guest]

Hello,

1. Is there a "best" year
2. What do i look for when inspecting
3. What to stay away from
4. Any problem consistant with any year
5. any other suggestions.

Vince

I think the AFC injected, later models are supperior, 1973-1974. D-jetronic injection was a nice 'first effort' but was never super reliable, and has too many failure points that can cause wrong mixture. Look for an AFC injected car.

There were 2 AC systems. The one with the dual fans on the outboard edges under the front fenders (with a chin spoiler hiding the AC condesor) is rumored to be the better system.

Look for serious rust. everything else can be fixed with enough $$. Chasing serious rust becomes a long-term commitment if it has a foothold in any old vehicle.

I stay away from any car that is highly modified; particularly folks who've swapped out the EFI for a single carburator. Chances are, if they made this swap they (or their mechanic) has made other serious comprimises in the maintenance, and the thing is a heap.

Problems consistant with year? Sure, all 411/412s are old as dirt, and asking for parts generates laughter at all turns. The design is good, and advanced logically during production, making later models subtly better than earlier versions but not by huge margins. basically it is an old, rare car that no one knows how to work on, and no on can get parts for.

If you like an a comfy, good-handling, efficient, safe, reliable, well-designed car, the new Jetta TDI is great. If you prefer an uphill battle for your transportation appliance, this is the car for you.

gmb
former Jetta owner,
currently 1974 412 4-door driver.

[raygreenwood]

I beg to differ, I have never had reliability issues with D-jet. It also meters better...and delivered better HP even when L-jet has the same compression on the 1.7. The air flap in ALL of the AFC type 4's was notoriously unreliable on an engine with backfire problems, which were common when poor valve adjustment was present. The rising rate fuel pressure regulator was never synched properly with the fuel curve...and rarely is on any L-jet. Hence the later use of a CO sensor in the exhaust, for correction sake, which the 412 never got. The L-jet was slower. Its all in the tuning. It did however, run well enough...and is simpler for those not well versed in D-jet. It also had better connectors...which I install on my D-jet harnesse anyway.
Most all of the differnces, other than styling, are in subtle suspension mods. Most all of which can be applied to a 411...but only if you understand exactly what those differences did, and what parts must be brough over as a group. For example...if you want the late model brake calipers and superior castor angle, the steering knuckles and control arms must go with it. If you want the later model strut bearings, the strut cartridges and bump stop assembly must go with it. Late model D-jet paper air cleaner is desirable over the early oil bath cleaner. The 4 speed is desirable over the auto...and can be swapped into 2 door, 4 door and wagon with ease...as long as you have ALL the parts. Ray

[metropoj]

Heh, I don't even get laughter when I ask for parts in "GM Country" up here. I get a " Huh ?? , What's a 412, What model is that, I never even heard of it, Was that the same as a Vega ? "

Ray has prepared you, go forth on your quest and search wisely.

Rust is your worst enemy in unlikely places, look everywhere ....

Don't be scared of D Jet, just scared of what's been done to it ! .... Usually, poor maintenance and dirty contacts will cause an owner to lose faith ..... persistence with it will get the bugs out !

[raygreenwood]

Isn't that the truth! They don't laugh here either. They stopped laughing years ago. Now they are simply intriguedbecause they cannot identify the vehicle in their mind at the dealer. I have to show them where in their computer and microfiche.....if it wasn't so sad...it would be hilarious..Ray

[alsehendo]

They verified my VIN number before letting it in a VW show, (Mofoco Bugfest)--no one running the show had ever seen one. They still classified it as a type 2 since it's a wagon. It didn't help that I run no trim or VW emblems on it, even thou I have them.

No one can ever guess what kind of car it is on the street, weirds people out when they see the flat front floor

[raygreenwood]

If they verified the VIN #...why in gods name would they run it in a type 2 class just because its a wagon? There are "0" type 2 parts involved in a type 4. I would raher see it in with the type 3's. I guess they had to put you somewhere...but I would refuse to show if they didn't classify it properly. The sad part is...that these vehicles are not really that rare in the VW world. Rare in #'s yes... but They produced them for 7 years. I find that most people are just narrow in their approach to VW history.....OK...I'll stop ranting now...Ray

[alsehendo]

Car wasn't in winner shape last year anyway, however it did get a lot of lookers. This was pretty much a type 1 get together, there was only a few type 2s and I just had to park with them. There was an other category but they were all buggies and kit cars. I also could have entered it with the busses. They wrote down all the VINS, I think they checked it just because they were curious on what VW officially called it and let me know.

It's has new power and paint since, but wasn't ready to go back to Elkhart Lake last Sunday when they held the show again. I will show it in the fall at the local VW dealers show. Not much hope here either, they go for strictly the stock look at this show. Hope to get the front-end fixed up first. I will be calling you Ray soon about some parts.

I think they may be more rare in Midwest. A VW mechanic said they didn't even sell them actively in most Wisconsin dealerships. There are a lot of US car manufacturing plants near by, I don?t think their was much demand for anything foreign especially back in the 70's.

Anyway it is cool having one of a kind at an outing like this, and after all it?s still an aircooled VW.

[metropoj]

Yeah, all the Type 3's and 4's get lumped together up here, as well as 914's in some shows ....

It's quite interesting. If they had a separate Type 4 entry, the WORST non running car could probably win a few shows because no one else is around to compete with ! Type threes are pretty rare with only one to three showing up for any given occasion ...


I like being different @!!

[VW Adam]

Well some VW people may not know what a Type IV is but I certainly do.
I don't own one. I do think that they are kinda cool in a weird sort of way. I do know someone that has a '73 412 4 door though. I have had to tell people what they were before at a VW event. I think it's about time that they are recognized at VW events.
By the way, I am the person who wrote the letter to VW Trends after they featured those two 412's.