Hey do you need to press the ball joint off and then back on? I got the press kit.
Is it possible for any of the peices on the top of the strut will still be good?
I was looking at the book and there are a lot of parts to the top of the strut mount!! You have that stop,bearing,friction plate,damper ring,boot!
Is it possible the bearing will be good still? Can you use other spacers?
My parts guy said he might have something for the boot. He had tie ends.
So am I going to get it back to wheels on the ground with out some kind of reman.? Thx Bill
Strut/ball Joint question??
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
You do not have to remove the ball joint to remove the strut. Just the three bolts that bolt the strut to the balljoint and steering knuckle. You have the late model strut bearings. You will find all of the spacers will be just fine, The top plate is fine...it never wears out. The bearing and bushing should be thrown away. They are probably decent...but...since theyare identical to what came in the VW foxs...they run under $25 dollars for the pair on each side...just replace them. Now...the plastic wear ring is non existant. It is 100% necessary. But...the little dish that sits under the large nut on top is identicdal to many of the golfs an some of the jettas...etc. Some of those have the nylon wear ring attached to that dish instead of the strut bushing housing...so they don't crack. Those should be easy to find in the junkyard...and should cost under $5 for the pair...and last forever. Ray
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
The strut mission....
Hey Ray so look up any front strut bearing for a vw fow and that gives you the bearing, in stock? Sweet! Those plastic vw parts,lol. Like all the vanagon shifter parts. Wonder how many extras of those type of parts were even made! Have any options for the strut boot? I need to pull the old one and measure it. Maybe my parts guy can match somethng. I'm still waiting on the inside tie rod ends with that 30degree or so bend. He had the outer ends in stock. Well, this way I can call him about the bearing from the fox. I need a front end again before my neighbors get too po'd looking at the floating 412,lol! I wont even have parts till the mid of the week, yikes.... lol... On to the mess of the master cyl. and the clean up under the steering column.... Thanks for the great info, Bill
Hey Ray, checked the reg. parts stores and just partamerica.com(adv. auto/Discount) had a strut mount for a fox 88. Do they call it a bearing or bushing? Thx, Bill
Hey Ray, checked the reg. parts stores and just partamerica.com(adv. auto/Discount) had a strut mount for a fox 88. Do they call it a bearing or bushing? Thx, Bill
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
raygreenwood wrote:You do not have to remove the ball joint to remove the strut. Just the three bolts that bolt the strut to the balljoint and steering knuckle. You have the late model strut bearings. You will find all of the spacers will be just fine, The top plate is fine...it never wears out. The bearing and bushing should be thrown away. They are probably decent...but...since theyare identical to what came in the VW foxs...they run under $25 dollars for the pair on each side...just replace them. Now...the plastic wear ring is non existant. It is 100% necessary. But...the little dish that sits under the large nut on top is identicdal to many of the golfs an some of the jettas...etc. Some of those have the nylon wear ring attached to that dish instead of the strut bushing housing...so they don't crack. Those should be easy to find in the junkyard...and should cost under $5 for the pair...and last forever. Ray
Hey Ray, I'm replacing the ball joints while I'm in there. If I can find it I want to make it as new and orig and I can. I got the old ball joints out and the new ones torq. to 30lbs. Man did it pop when the old ball joints came out of the control arm! I guess 29 years does that.lol!
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Unless the old ball joints hhave rust coming from them, or are broken...DO NOT throw them away. Until I come up withsomething better, they may be your only spares. Ball joints are non-existant. I am trying to find the part #'s for the strut bushing and bearing. But if you hae the late model 412 strut bracket with the assymettrical bolt pattern...two toward the back one toward the front...then simpy pop the bushing out and take it to the parts store. It is even the same part # as the one on the fox. So is the bearing. Ray
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
strut ?
Hey Ray, tried to get the strut nut off with a hand impact but no luck. lol!
Have to break out the air tools I guess. It looks like the plastic top rings are split on the mounts. Have to see what else is bad when I get the strut apart. Thx Bill
Have to break out the air tools I guess. It looks like the plastic top rings are split on the mounts. Have to see what else is bad when I get the strut apart. Thx Bill
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
If you are replacing the cartridges, you can take a large pair of vice grips and lock them ungodly hard on the main shaft betwen the spring coils. The use a breaker bar and a socket. The vice grips will come up against the springs and keep things from turning. This helps with the inpact wrench too. Ray
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Plastic ring.
Hey Ray, is that plastic top ring near the top plate going to be a problem?
I can see finding that bearing or a close match from a bearing
place or part house? I have to ask my parts guy about the fox match.
What is that strut mount they sell? Is it everything but the plates or just the damper?
They show a boot for the fox strut do you think that will work on the 412?
I was looking at a older bus cv boot and I think it could work but what is the travel needed? They are that neophrene red split ones,lol! Thx bill
p.s. Hey what about that control arm damper bushing. Think if i pull it they can match it or is it the same as a fox? Was the fox a front engine car?
I can see finding that bearing or a close match from a bearing
place or part house? I have to ask my parts guy about the fox match.
What is that strut mount they sell? Is it everything but the plates or just the damper?
They show a boot for the fox strut do you think that will work on the 412?
I was looking at a older bus cv boot and I think it could work but what is the travel needed? They are that neophrene red split ones,lol! Thx bill
p.s. Hey what about that control arm damper bushing. Think if i pull it they can match it or is it the same as a fox? Was the fox a front engine car?
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Yes, you need those rings...very important. But...look at some of the above posts. Go to the junkyard...look at water cooled vehicles. Golfs, jettas, fox. They mostly have that same "dish" that is under the strut nut. But...some of them have the plastic rings attached to the little metal "dish"...instead of the top of the strut mount. Those swap right over and replace the ring that is attached to the strut mount on your vehicle. Just swap the whole dish over.
As for the strut boot, depending upon wether you have early or late...with the big rubber bump stop with the metal bushing inside, you shoul be able to get strut boots at PeP-boys...generic. Not those red one. Look on the strut mount shock area aisle. Go through a few boxes. What I have found also that works well, is exact size high temp dryer hose. About 4" diameter, blue gren. It is actually material handling hose. I get it a large rubber and gasket supply houses. Its great for boots when using that plastic ring that was glued to the top of your original boots.
Do not mess with getting the "bent" inner tie rod ends. Use type 3 inners. The bend does nothing. I have been using type 3 inners for about 10 years. No problems...easy to find...same threads..cheaper.
As for the strut bushing and bearing...they are identical to late model fox. Same part #. Take yours out and take it in to compare. Part # on the bushing is 823 412 355. The bearing has no part 3...but is common on the fox and some golf.
As for the control arm damper...do you mean the steering damper? That telescopic strut that attaches to the subframe? That bushing rarely will ever be bad. A for control arm bushings, you can use early 80's model rabbit front control arm bushings. You will need to pull them in with a threaded rod, a length or pipe and a nut and some lube. They are a hair shorter in tube length. Put a 3/32 washer on each side, grease them...then install the bolt. You can also use the urethane bushings for rabbit control arm avaialable here and there. these work very well.
Yep, the fox was front engined watercooled. Which strut mount pattern do you have? There were 3. The early two have symmetridcally spaced bolts...120* apart. The late one..I hope we are speaking of here were actually the same as late superbeetle....HEY! Forgot!...the bushing and bearing are the same as a 79 super. Ask for those. They are easier to find. Also get a new idler arm bushing. Look for a solid bronze one. They put them into the very last year of superbeetl. They are identical...andget rid ofa lot of the shimmy problem. Ray
As for the strut boot, depending upon wether you have early or late...with the big rubber bump stop with the metal bushing inside, you shoul be able to get strut boots at PeP-boys...generic. Not those red one. Look on the strut mount shock area aisle. Go through a few boxes. What I have found also that works well, is exact size high temp dryer hose. About 4" diameter, blue gren. It is actually material handling hose. I get it a large rubber and gasket supply houses. Its great for boots when using that plastic ring that was glued to the top of your original boots.
Do not mess with getting the "bent" inner tie rod ends. Use type 3 inners. The bend does nothing. I have been using type 3 inners for about 10 years. No problems...easy to find...same threads..cheaper.
As for the strut bushing and bearing...they are identical to late model fox. Same part #. Take yours out and take it in to compare. Part # on the bushing is 823 412 355. The bearing has no part 3...but is common on the fox and some golf.
As for the control arm damper...do you mean the steering damper? That telescopic strut that attaches to the subframe? That bushing rarely will ever be bad. A for control arm bushings, you can use early 80's model rabbit front control arm bushings. You will need to pull them in with a threaded rod, a length or pipe and a nut and some lube. They are a hair shorter in tube length. Put a 3/32 washer on each side, grease them...then install the bolt. You can also use the urethane bushings for rabbit control arm avaialable here and there. these work very well.
Yep, the fox was front engined watercooled. Which strut mount pattern do you have? There were 3. The early two have symmetridcally spaced bolts...120* apart. The late one..I hope we are speaking of here were actually the same as late superbeetle....HEY! Forgot!...the bushing and bearing are the same as a 79 super. Ask for those. They are easier to find. Also get a new idler arm bushing. Look for a solid bronze one. They put them into the very last year of superbeetl. They are identical...andget rid ofa lot of the shimmy problem. Ray
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Strut Rebuild
Hey Ray, got one strut apart and the mount looks pretty good. The bushing or big rubber peice looks flexible and not cracked and the bearing looks and feels good,the big stop too. So what is the deal with replacing the Strut cart.? I pulled the old shaft after pulling the seal cap and it looks like all you need to do is replace the fluid and that top "o" ring on the strut shaft. I think you can get it from the cycle shop. Have to measure that seal.
The new cart. moves side to side inside the tube so should I come up with a bushing? I dont get what that white plastic ring on the top mount(2studs one side,1 other) does? Why would you do the cart instead of the seal and fluid? Thx, Bill
The new cart. moves side to side inside the tube so should I come up with a bushing? I dont get what that white plastic ring on the top mount(2studs one side,1 other) does? Why would you do the cart instead of the seal and fluid? Thx, Bill
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Ok..this may be long. You have an original strut unit. The guts for that were as finely made as a German rifle. They are actually quite complex in their fluid flow. I found this out the hard way. You have to have the EXACT type of fluid....and the EXACT amount of it. Both of which ...information wise....is unobtanium. I tried 8 different hydraulic fluids. Eventually went with a Pentosin Audi hydraulic fluid.
The fluid cannot change viscosity when it gets cold..or the suspension wll get so stiff....that the first deep bumpwill literally shatter the springs in the ball joints...no kidding! The most active part of the strut is the very fine metal piston ring on the head...and the stack of shims and one way valve on the bottom.
Heres how it works. You hit a bump....the rod drives downward. Thestack of vent shims and the drillings in the plunger head meter the downward rate of travel. The fluid bypasses to the top side of the piston. Now...on the upstroke...or extension....the load of fluid very quickly gets pushed upward. The rate of return is governed by the drillings in the piston head. Also...in the top of the strut is the seal system. Trust me....its shot. There is a bronze and babbit type shaft bushing. Then a rubber seal...whose size and thickness is totally unique in the seal world. The bushing is actually an oil scraper. As the piston rises on rebound, it pumps excess fluid back through the bypass holes in the top plug...into the outer resoivoir around the tube. There is a lot of pressure. The top seal has a unique configuration. It must hold that pressure. It is not just a shaft seal. The up or down pressed in location of the bronze bushing ...and the diameter of the drain holes...which are actually metering holes...governs the rebound rate. The fluid viscosity...and volume...greatly affect the rebound rate. Too little...and it slams upwrd when the wheel casting drops...due to the huge spring on the strut. Too much fluid...or too heavy viscosity....and it instantly blows the upper seal...permanently. The fluid must be correct...because in the bottom of the inner tube...you will see a small metal disc. It has a hole about .012" in diameter. It meters the refresh rate of the fluid into teh bottom chamber. The fluid has to be squeeky cleam...or that clogs. If its the wrong viscosity....there will be too little fluid in the bottom section on the next downstroke. Thats ugly.
This is what the big deal on the strut cartridges are. They are a work of art....they are also no longer servicable. They are also of relatively low performance...mainly in rebound. Yes they need a bushing inside. they have a3 point stabilizer ring at the top...and they also need one at bottom. Anything you add will slow down fluid transfer. I spent two years playing with these. So..you will need to find new cartridges.....welcome to the world of complex automotive problems! Strut cartridges have not been made in over a decade. Read some of my oldposts on this. There is an excellent solution.
The bushings will generally look OK. They are not. Replace them. Same rules as a cluctch job. You have them out and they are too cheap not to replace. You are lucky you have the late pattern strut bushinh housings...as the early ones are unobtanium...save for NOS. Rare...same cracking issues as used...and about $85 ea.
The delrin ring is a wear ring. When your turn corners or te body leans around curves...the littlemetal dish comes in contact with the strut bushing due to the flex of the bushing. without that wear ring...you will very quickly destroy the strut bushing housing due to metal to metal contact. Also without the rings....the caamber increase through curves. It messe up the handling. Ray
The fluid cannot change viscosity when it gets cold..or the suspension wll get so stiff....that the first deep bumpwill literally shatter the springs in the ball joints...no kidding! The most active part of the strut is the very fine metal piston ring on the head...and the stack of shims and one way valve on the bottom.
Heres how it works. You hit a bump....the rod drives downward. Thestack of vent shims and the drillings in the plunger head meter the downward rate of travel. The fluid bypasses to the top side of the piston. Now...on the upstroke...or extension....the load of fluid very quickly gets pushed upward. The rate of return is governed by the drillings in the piston head. Also...in the top of the strut is the seal system. Trust me....its shot. There is a bronze and babbit type shaft bushing. Then a rubber seal...whose size and thickness is totally unique in the seal world. The bushing is actually an oil scraper. As the piston rises on rebound, it pumps excess fluid back through the bypass holes in the top plug...into the outer resoivoir around the tube. There is a lot of pressure. The top seal has a unique configuration. It must hold that pressure. It is not just a shaft seal. The up or down pressed in location of the bronze bushing ...and the diameter of the drain holes...which are actually metering holes...governs the rebound rate. The fluid viscosity...and volume...greatly affect the rebound rate. Too little...and it slams upwrd when the wheel casting drops...due to the huge spring on the strut. Too much fluid...or too heavy viscosity....and it instantly blows the upper seal...permanently. The fluid must be correct...because in the bottom of the inner tube...you will see a small metal disc. It has a hole about .012" in diameter. It meters the refresh rate of the fluid into teh bottom chamber. The fluid has to be squeeky cleam...or that clogs. If its the wrong viscosity....there will be too little fluid in the bottom section on the next downstroke. Thats ugly.
This is what the big deal on the strut cartridges are. They are a work of art....they are also no longer servicable. They are also of relatively low performance...mainly in rebound. Yes they need a bushing inside. they have a3 point stabilizer ring at the top...and they also need one at bottom. Anything you add will slow down fluid transfer. I spent two years playing with these. So..you will need to find new cartridges.....welcome to the world of complex automotive problems! Strut cartridges have not been made in over a decade. Read some of my oldposts on this. There is an excellent solution.
The bushings will generally look OK. They are not. Replace them. Same rules as a cluctch job. You have them out and they are too cheap not to replace. You are lucky you have the late pattern strut bushinh housings...as the early ones are unobtanium...save for NOS. Rare...same cracking issues as used...and about $85 ea.
The delrin ring is a wear ring. When your turn corners or te body leans around curves...the littlemetal dish comes in contact with the strut bushing due to the flex of the bushing. without that wear ring...you will very quickly destroy the strut bushing housing due to metal to metal contact. Also without the rings....the caamber increase through curves. It messe up the handling. Ray
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Strut rebuild possible?
Hey Ray, so it sounds like basically the old strut piston system is non-rebuildable? It looks like you should be able to replace the seal and remeasure the fluid. I Guess am working with the nos cart. replacement now so on to bushing the cart in the old shaft tube or is that impossible?
I cant believe they didnt make it so you could service the strut.
Too bad a beetle strut kit would work or something.lol...
I could still measure the fluid from the other strut anyway to get a rough
idea of the cc in the tube give or take 10cc,lol....
I dont know how to check viscosity, maybe you freeze it and heat it...
That fluid had that funky smell...
I cant believe how big the spring is uncompressed!
I've seen the mount bushing...partsamerica.com,i think....
That white plastic ring sounds important, so is the fox mount the same??
I dont know.. I just need a strut/assembly to put back,lol....
A plug like done thing popped out of the rod tube when I compressed it and oil went everywhere!
Well back to mount and strut cart. hell! lol! Thx Bill
I cant believe they didnt make it so you could service the strut.
Too bad a beetle strut kit would work or something.lol...
I could still measure the fluid from the other strut anyway to get a rough
idea of the cc in the tube give or take 10cc,lol....
I dont know how to check viscosity, maybe you freeze it and heat it...
That fluid had that funky smell...
I cant believe how big the spring is uncompressed!
I've seen the mount bushing...partsamerica.com,i think....
That white plastic ring sounds important, so is the fox mount the same??
I dont know.. I just need a strut/assembly to put back,lol....
A plug like done thing popped out of the rod tube when I compressed it and oil went everywhere!
Well back to mount and strut cart. hell! lol! Thx Bill
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
A few things that may help you. The late superbeetle upper mount is identical. The fox is totally different...but utilized the same bushing and bearing. By the strut mount assembly, I mean the 3 bolt metal shell, the white rng, te bearing cartridge and teh bushing. If you find entire assemblies for teh late super...those load right in. The white ring is important. Threre are also black rings. Those are much better. All water cooled vehicles use some variant of that plastic ring. Many of them will fit. They just fit differently. If you look at that dish shaped piece of metal..that is directly under the big nut on top....that is almost identical to what is on a lot of water cooled VW. Its just a washer and spacer basically...but is dish shaped. Many of the watercooled ones...have the black plastic ring attached to that dish instead of the mount. Look for those...they are like almost free in the junkyards...and swap right out for the dish you have.
DO NOT buy entire strut mounts. You will pay way too much for them...and the stock white ring will crack in a year. It is nylon...it absorbs water and shrinks with heat. The black ones are Delrin. Just get the black ones from a junkyard with the dish/washer....and buy new bushings and bearings. If the bushings are good...just get new bearings.
OK....using your stock NOS strut insert will be finr for a while. The thing to look for....does the piston have scoring? does the inside of the tube have scoring? Is there any rust ? If not...use it.
Go to a beck arnley dealer...or any world parts dealer. You are looking for mineral based hydraulic fluid. I will drop you a type later today.
Yes...the NOS superbeetle struts are essentially the same...just a different rod. They also have a differnt shim stack under the nut and spring at the bottom...and a different size vent hole at the bottom.
But the inner tube could be used if the parts are changed. Before you clean out the strut tube...and it must very clean...look inside with a flashlight and try to ascertain a fluid level. There should be a lie. ITs about halfway...when the strut has been filled, pumped up and down...pushed down...then allowed to drop to rest position.
If you are willing to have some machine work done....like about $120 worth...I can fax or e-mail an exact drawing of a pair of stubs that you an make that will allow the audi 4000 KYB GR-2 cartridge to drop in. Or I can show you how to tack weld an adapter on that will alow you to use the same cartridge. For the moment, its worth it to put the bushings in new..reassemble and see what you get from refurbishing the stock unit. But the problem is, that as they wear, they operate very unevenly, They get dangerous to drive. Ray
DO NOT buy entire strut mounts. You will pay way too much for them...and the stock white ring will crack in a year. It is nylon...it absorbs water and shrinks with heat. The black ones are Delrin. Just get the black ones from a junkyard with the dish/washer....and buy new bushings and bearings. If the bushings are good...just get new bearings.
OK....using your stock NOS strut insert will be finr for a while. The thing to look for....does the piston have scoring? does the inside of the tube have scoring? Is there any rust ? If not...use it.
Go to a beck arnley dealer...or any world parts dealer. You are looking for mineral based hydraulic fluid. I will drop you a type later today.
Yes...the NOS superbeetle struts are essentially the same...just a different rod. They also have a differnt shim stack under the nut and spring at the bottom...and a different size vent hole at the bottom.
But the inner tube could be used if the parts are changed. Before you clean out the strut tube...and it must very clean...look inside with a flashlight and try to ascertain a fluid level. There should be a lie. ITs about halfway...when the strut has been filled, pumped up and down...pushed down...then allowed to drop to rest position.
If you are willing to have some machine work done....like about $120 worth...I can fax or e-mail an exact drawing of a pair of stubs that you an make that will allow the audi 4000 KYB GR-2 cartridge to drop in. Or I can show you how to tack weld an adapter on that will alow you to use the same cartridge. For the moment, its worth it to put the bushings in new..reassemble and see what you get from refurbishing the stock unit. But the problem is, that as they wear, they operate very unevenly, They get dangerous to drive. Ray
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Maybe make it work with spacers?
Hey Ray, I was looking at the nos cart.(Gabriel(hd)-44025) in the strut tube and I think I might be able to use a spacer sleeve/bushing on the new cart. rod shaft to extend the large(22mm(od)-14mm(id) part another 43mm(1-11/16") for the stop travel and mount height location, but still need a spacer sleeve ring or race 48mm(1-3/4") for the top side gaps where the cap fits on the strut tube. The nos cart. rod shaft is smaller then the orig. strut rod. and doesnt move too smooth when I tried it with just shems in the top of the cap. It feels choppy but its not under load with the spring and body?! Maybe? Then need to put another damper ring under the top strut mount cap where the bottom rubber damper and bearing meet the cap to help with that top nylon ring(crack) and the strut top cap rest movement. I dont think you can rebuild the orig. strut rod piston and those shims. I toke it apart and cleaned the shims and plates but in the fluid was a lot of nylon white/yellow ring peices which I cant tell if it went on the rod piston or main tube damper plug piston? I wish all you needed was to clean the piston shims and replace the "o"rings on the rod piston and the main tube and fluid! The orig. strut looks like a nice peice of engineering! Thx for all your help and info!! Bill
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Actually...you are thinking along the correct lines. The spacer rings are calledcentering ringfs. They actually come in most strut cartridge replacement kits. The nylon in the tube was either a bumper under the bottom nut, or thread locking material. Yep...the original struts were a close tolerance piece of engineering.
If you use audi 4000 strut cartridges, there are two ways to go about it.
Since the overall strut cartridge is shorter....and so is the rod, without making any changes to the original 411/412 strut body, you have to get the rod to reach upward about 2.5". On the 411 and early 412 strut (which you do not have)...its harder. You have to have a stub machined that duplicates the 5" long pin that reaches through the big bump stop to the metal bushing (see the book). That goes right under the top plate.
The top 3/8" of the thread on the new cartridge needs to becut off and ground flush to make a flush fit with the stub.
On your car, the "step" in the original strut rod should meet up right under the top plate with the bushing in between. Either way, when you are done, the new Audi strut rod will be somewhere around 2.5" longer (I don't have my drawings in front of me). Now...that leaves the bottom of the strut cartridge "dangleing" about 2.5" above thebottom of the tube. Simply use a piece of pipe as a spacer.
The risk with this set up is...if you do not get the stub fitting flush with the shaft...meaning no gap betweenthe two parts....its may snap. Not good.
Another way. Actually two ways. (1) If you go to the junkyard and measure, you will notice that there are a few different tube designs for the front strut on the superbeetle. One of them has a reduced diameter about 2" from the top...meaning the lower end is smaller. But...the top screw on cap that retains the cartridge is the same size and thread as the 411/412. So....take a super beetle tube...and cut the bottom off. With some measureing, you can find out how much longer the Audi strut needs to sit upward. Slip the upper length of the tube into the 411/412 strut tube....and weld it in place. Now you havea top cap that is sitting the right amount higher...to extend the strut tube of your 412. Now the audi strut will drop right in....as long as you put a piece of pipe for a spacer underneath to make it sit up flush under the cap at the top. You will need to dump the stock bump stop. Its not needed. se one from a rabbit, golf, jetta...with the boot....since it fits the rod anyway.
The other method...is a new one I am exploring. The strut tube on my cabriolet...which is pretty standard rabbit Golf..and take ths same size strut cartridge...but different valving the an the Audi 4000/VW quantum....is 1.895" diameter. The 412 strut tube is 2.050" in diameter. If the wall section is about right (havn't measured yet)...then you can simply grind of the control arm mounting flange from the bottom of the rabbit strut and the spring perch...and slip it inside. Then adjust how far you slide it in to give you the correct spring length dimension when the top plate, strut bush, shims and nut are installed...mark the tube...and have it welded all the way around.
The thing you have to measure, is to reassemble your stock strut. Measure from the center of the edge of the bottom spring seat cup (perch)....to the center of the edge of the top spring plate. Record that. Subtract 3/4"-1"....which will bring the car level rear and get rid of that annoying nose high position. This measurement is what the spring length should be when you are finished doing this with the new strut cartridge. This should work very well. Since it will retain the correct top cap for the Audi/VW quantum , it will be rock solid. Ray
If you use audi 4000 strut cartridges, there are two ways to go about it.
Since the overall strut cartridge is shorter....and so is the rod, without making any changes to the original 411/412 strut body, you have to get the rod to reach upward about 2.5". On the 411 and early 412 strut (which you do not have)...its harder. You have to have a stub machined that duplicates the 5" long pin that reaches through the big bump stop to the metal bushing (see the book). That goes right under the top plate.
The top 3/8" of the thread on the new cartridge needs to becut off and ground flush to make a flush fit with the stub.
On your car, the "step" in the original strut rod should meet up right under the top plate with the bushing in between. Either way, when you are done, the new Audi strut rod will be somewhere around 2.5" longer (I don't have my drawings in front of me). Now...that leaves the bottom of the strut cartridge "dangleing" about 2.5" above thebottom of the tube. Simply use a piece of pipe as a spacer.
The risk with this set up is...if you do not get the stub fitting flush with the shaft...meaning no gap betweenthe two parts....its may snap. Not good.
Another way. Actually two ways. (1) If you go to the junkyard and measure, you will notice that there are a few different tube designs for the front strut on the superbeetle. One of them has a reduced diameter about 2" from the top...meaning the lower end is smaller. But...the top screw on cap that retains the cartridge is the same size and thread as the 411/412. So....take a super beetle tube...and cut the bottom off. With some measureing, you can find out how much longer the Audi strut needs to sit upward. Slip the upper length of the tube into the 411/412 strut tube....and weld it in place. Now you havea top cap that is sitting the right amount higher...to extend the strut tube of your 412. Now the audi strut will drop right in....as long as you put a piece of pipe for a spacer underneath to make it sit up flush under the cap at the top. You will need to dump the stock bump stop. Its not needed. se one from a rabbit, golf, jetta...with the boot....since it fits the rod anyway.
The other method...is a new one I am exploring. The strut tube on my cabriolet...which is pretty standard rabbit Golf..and take ths same size strut cartridge...but different valving the an the Audi 4000/VW quantum....is 1.895" diameter. The 412 strut tube is 2.050" in diameter. If the wall section is about right (havn't measured yet)...then you can simply grind of the control arm mounting flange from the bottom of the rabbit strut and the spring perch...and slip it inside. Then adjust how far you slide it in to give you the correct spring length dimension when the top plate, strut bush, shims and nut are installed...mark the tube...and have it welded all the way around.
The thing you have to measure, is to reassemble your stock strut. Measure from the center of the edge of the bottom spring seat cup (perch)....to the center of the edge of the top spring plate. Record that. Subtract 3/4"-1"....which will bring the car level rear and get rid of that annoying nose high position. This measurement is what the spring length should be when you are finished doing this with the new strut cartridge. This should work very well. Since it will retain the correct top cap for the Audi/VW quantum , it will be rock solid. Ray