Just goes to show....

rfoutch · Post by **rfoutch** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:56 pm

Well,

As most of you knew, I was havings some issues with the thing, but I assumed it was because it was sitting so long.

It had no power in 4th, and was a bit of a dog.. It has been a while since I had drive a totally stock 1600, but it still seemed to be too much of a dog...

So, since I had already done the rest of the tune up when I first got it running (yea I know I should have adjusted the valves then...) and there was quite a bit of valve train noise... I had a valve adjustment scheduled on the Thing this weekend...

I pulled the valve cover for 1 and 2 side off and saw something a bit strange... the #1 intake push rod was sitting outside of the rocker cup, extended well past it I might say..

It seems that who ever worked on this car in the past, must have pulled the rockers and missed this push rod.

I was afraid that it would be bent when I removed it and I did not have a spare.. But pulled the rocker, and rolled the push rod, straight as an arrow.. So back together it went, re tourqed the rockers and did the valve adjustment as planned..

Runs like a top now, no problem at all....

Just goes to show, always do the full check out on a newly aquired car, and don't take short cuts...

I took a picture and will post it later.

Funny stuff...

Randy

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:43 pm

Randy funny how much better a 4 cyl will run than a three cyl. Don`t feel bad I have done a lot worse than that myself. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

rfoutch · Post by **rfoutch** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:41 pm

Well,

I am lucky I did not create the problem, just got into much of a hurry to check things out the way I should.

All is well now and that is what is important, no damage done.

Randy

Capn Skully · Post by **Capn Skully** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:32 am

I am building an engine for a friend and preparing to set the valves. With a stock pulley I lined up the marks and proceded to adjust the valves only they would not adjust. I forgot that I need to set them using the distributor, the marks on a stock pulley are not at TDC unlike using a degreed pulley.

After much head scratching I got it.

Michael Basso · Post by **Michael Basso** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:07 am

Capn,
you do not use the distributor you set your valves, you go by the line in the crank pulley,
check your idiots guide for proper directions.
Sincerely,
Mike

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:58 am

The most accurate method I know of to set valve adjustment is to use the opposite cylinder as a guide. For example when #1 cylinder is up for fire rocking the engine will cause the rockers of the opposite cylinder ro rock in and out in response. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

Capn Skully · Post by **Capn Skully** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:10 pm

Michael Basso wrote:Capn,
you do not use the distributor you set your valves, you go by the line in the crank pulley,
check your idiots guide for proper directions.
Sincerely,
Mike

Then I have tear the engine all the way back down because I did something wrong. The valves won't set using the pulley marks.

rfoutch · Post by **rfoutch** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:21 pm

I use both.

Line up the notch in the Dissy with the rotor (firing #1) and the TDC mark on the crank. (the crank is more important to get right on)

Set #1

Turn crank ccw 180* and set #2 (timing mark is BDC)
Turn crank ccw 180* and set #3 (timing mark is at TDC again, but Rotor is 180* from #1)
Turn crank ccw 180* and set #4(timing mark is at BDC)

Watch the rotor as you go around, it is firing at the cyl you are adjusting.

If you think about it, it is the reverse of the firing order, which when you are rotating the Crank CCW that makes since.

If you rotated it Clockwise, you would have to jump from side to side to adjust 1-4-3-2. This way still starting on #1 and going Counter Clockwise you adjust 1-2-3-4

That is how I do it and it works out just fine.

So in my opinion, you are both correct.

Randy

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:26 pm

I do not think you would have to tear the engine apart. IF there is something wrong it would most likely be either distributor drive gear (between distr and crank gear) or distr drive shaft orientation.
Are you using the same dist as was previously in the engine. Sometimes they get switched 180 out by reindexing the foot and reinserting the pin. Its not uncommon that either could be out.
With the crank pulley notch in alignment with the case seam the rotor should be in alignment with the notch on the rotor in about the 5 0:clock position. Its not hard and fast but it is normal. At that point #1 is up for fire and both valves(rockers) will be slack. From there go to #2 and around til you are sure all four cylinders are correctly oriented.
Sometimes people adjust valves in a clockwise direction just as indicated on the firing order on gen stand. That results in two being in and two being out hitting correctly on every other one. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:54 am

Guess I won't go into the time I bought a project car and started pulling the carb and distributor with the "no fire" problem.

Someone should have told me to stop by the gas station.

OOPS..

T.

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:01 am

I did just the opposite once. I towed a van 50 miles because "it had a FI malfunction". After a couple of days thinking about it I figured what was up. I then pulled the dist cap and found as I had suspected a disintregated rotor. The funny part was that I had a spare rotor with me in my tool box. I could have been on the road again in a minute had I followed intuition rather than intellect. Oh well, live and learn. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

VW_Factor · Post by **VW_Factor** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:25 am

Honestly, when I adjust valves, I rotate the engine around, while watching the valves actuate.. After watching them go through the motion of exhaust and then intake, rotate a bit more, after both are closed on the cylinder, and adjust away..

My crank pulley sadly doesnt have a good mark on it, so I just do it this way.. Takes a bit longer, yanno, just making sure that each cylinder is on its power stroke, however, if you watch them carefully, its easy enough to do.

Capn Skully · Post by **Capn Skully** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:41 pm

Even with the adjusting screws removed the rockers never become loose no matter how I turn the engine. Something is bad wrong.

rfoutch · Post by **rfoutch** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:57 pm

Cap'n

Are you running the same cam? Did you go from a stoked engine to a standard? Are these the same rockers as before?

Sound like your push rods are too long. When you run ratio rockers (above 1.25 to 1) you need longer push rods.

If any of the above is true, then grab a stock push rod and check it out.

I can't think of any other reason the push rods would be to long...

Randy

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:27 pm

Capn still sounds like disorientatrion to me. Just start from scratch and go through it step by step.Remove the distributor to be sure its drive gear is set in correctly. Completely slack off all rocker adjustments.bring the pulley up to TDC in alignment with the case seam. #1 set of rockers should be slack and even (parrallell to each other). Note where the rotor points(you do infact use the dist as a reference). That is #1 and the sequence can now begin by reverse rotation of the engine to #2 position. Adjust #2 as you did #1 and move to #3. Same on #3 & #4.
go back to #1up for fire. Align the notch on the dist rim with the rotor. Set the #1 plug wire in that location then clockwise #4 #3 & #2. You should be fine. Its my experience that once we become disorientated we have the tendacy to repeat the process that got us there in the first place. Its kind of like being disoriented in the woods. You have to keep a cool head and begin from scratch with a basic reference and expand from there.
I`ve done exactly what youre doing now trying to adjust a valve that wo`nt adjust. Over and over. Finally finding my error and get it straightened out. Five minures thinking is worth an hours labor sometimes. Best of lck. Bob Ingman

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Just goes to show....

Just goes to show....

valve adjustment correction

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