who sells REAL Thing rear brake shoes?

Big.Al · Post by **Big.Al** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:10 am

Hi All,

I can't seem to find the full width Thing Rear Brake Shoes.

Does anyone know a place that sells them?

If not, anyone have some cores that I can have re-lined?

Big. Al
Houston

Post by **Marc** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:26 am

This is an IRS Thing? I believe that the only difference between the 181 609 537 shoes and the 113 609 537C (AKA 10153) is the hardness of the lining material. Standard-thickness replacement linings had a 181 number but if you wanted oversize linings you used the Beetle part.
If you want something harder/better than Beetle shoes, consider semi-metallics - that's what these guys sell: http://germanmotorworks.com

If it's a swingaxle, it uses the same rear brakes as an August 1960 - July 1963 type 2.

Big.Al · Post by **Big.Al** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:27 pm

Marc wrote:This is an IRS Thing? I believe that the only difference between the 181 609 537 shoes and the 113 609 537C (AKA 10153) is the hardness of the lining material. Standard-thickness replacement linings had a 181 number but if you wanted oversize linings you used the Beetle part.
If you want something harder/better than Beetle shoes, consider semi-metallics - that's what these guys sell: http://germanmotorworks.com

If it's a swingaxle, it uses the same rear brakes as an August 1960 - July 1963 type 2.

Hi Marc,

Yes, it is an IRS think 1974 to be exact (sorry, I should have mentioned that...)

When I disassembled the rear brakes, it had thinner shoes, that I assumed were bug, since bug brakes are much thinner than Thing.

Unless my research is wrong or I misunderstood, the thing shoes are substancially wider (as opposed to thicker) than the standard beetle shoes.

semi-metalic wouldn't be a bad idea, but that's not what I was originally asking about.

When I asked around for Thing shoes, all of the parts stores told me that they did not have any, but Bug shoes would fit although they were not as wide as Thing shoes.

Well, that's the reason I thought of putting Thing rear brakes on my bug, to get more braking surface and therefore braking power to my bug.

Did I get steered wrong?

Post by **Marc** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:43 pm

Rear Bug shoes prior to `68 were narrower. The `65-`67 shoe frame is identical to the `68-up except for the width, maybe that's what someone put on yours (possibly they were misled by the fact that both Things and pre-`68 Beetles have 5-lug drums, even though the Things' are wider).

Big.Al · Post by **Big.Al** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:05 pm

ah, so thier thinking was:
"5-lug drum needs 5-lug bug shoe"

when it should have been:
"74 thing needs 74 bug shoe"

So a late bug brake shoe should work!

I should bring the old smaller show to the FLACVWPS and see how wide a late bug shoe is.

Thanks!

Post by **Marc** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:06 pm

Your front & rear shoes should be the same width...in fact, a rear shoe will work on the front (although you may need to drill a return spring hole in it).

Mattt · Post by **Mattt** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:15 pm

Big.Al wrote:Yes, it is an IRS think 1974 to be exact (sorry, I should have mentioned that...)

When I disassembled the rear brakes, it had thinner shoes, that I assumed were bug, since bug brakes are much thinner than Thing.

Unless my research is wrong or I misunderstood, the thing shoes are substancially wider (as opposed to thicker) than the standard beetle shoes.

semi-metalic wouldn't be a bad idea, but that's not what I was originally asking about.

When I asked around for Thing shoes, all of the parts stores told me that they did not have any, but Bug shoes would fit although they were not as wide as Thing shoes.

Well, that's the reason I thought of putting Thing rear brakes on my bug, to get more braking surface and therefore braking power to my bug.

Did I get steered wrong?

The Thing rear brake shoes are the same as Bug shoes of the same year. The drum is wider, but the shoe is not. The only VW I know of wider shoes is the T-3.

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:34 pm

matt is correct, there is no difference between the wide 5 beetle shoes and thing shoes.

at the present time, pretty much ALL brake shoes for these cars are the same part, front or rear, regardless of part numbers. in the name of parts rationalization, manufacturers now use only one core for the front and rear of beetle 65-67 brake shoes.

Big.Al · Post by **Big.Al** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:17 pm

punkinfair wrote:matt is correct, there is no difference between the wide 5 beetle shoes and thing shoes.

mattt wrote:The Thing rear brake shoes are the same as Bug shoes of the same year.

Now I'm more confused, cause it sounds like you two guys are saying different things.

Mattt says same year.

Punkinfair says same wide 5.

I know 67 and earlier bug drums are thinner (less-wide) than these Thing Drums. that is a fact. I know that 74 bug shoes are wider than 67 bug shoes. THAT is a fact.

Now, maybe the 74 thing (wide 5) drums are no wider than 74 (narrow 4) beetle drums, but I don't have 74 Bug drums to compare to my 74 Thing drums.

Sounds like I need to take my drums to the flvwaps and see if they have 74 bug drums...

Post by **Marc** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:45 pm

Yes, Scott has managed to make this as clear as mud. Hard to believe he's a paid parts professional...I'm just an over-the-hill ex-mechanic who makes a living tweaking computers and I've probably forgotten more than he knows on the subject. Sorry if that seems harsh, but he's the one flaunting the credentials which should give him credibility.
The spine of the `65-`67 rear shoe is the same as the spine of the `68-up rear shoe, but the `68-up has a wider surface where the lining is applied.
All `65-up fronts are the same (wide, with angled ends at the adjusters); the `68-up rear can be used as a `65-up front if it has the extra hole in it for the front return spring (but you can't use a front in the rear since it won't have the slot and hole for the e-brake system).
It's been about 20 years but as I recall, the relining-industry numbers are 10142 for the `65-up front, 10143 for the `65-`67 rear, and 10153 for the `68-up rear.

It's irrelevant to the thread but I feel bound to mention that `67 'Ghias and Euro-spec 1500 Beetles with 4-lug front disk brakes still use the `65-`67 rear shoes - their original (obsolete) 4-lug drums weren't wide enough for the `68-up shoes. The wheel cylinder sizes and backing plate offset for the adjusters was also changed in `68, although I think the slots in the adjusters and the wheel cylinders are wide enough to let you mismatch shoes and backing plates.

Stroker 40 horse · Post by **Stroker 40 horse** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:52 pm

So, the Thing shoes and Type III shoes (IRS) are the same?

If the wider relined shoes are NLA, find a used set and have them relined at a specialty shop; costs only a little more.

Post by **Marc** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:00 pm

Stroker 40 horse wrote:So, the Thing shoes and Type III shoes (IRS) are the same? ....

ABSOLUTELY NOT!
I don't know how you managed to read that into what's been posted.

Type III shoes/drums are wider and larger in diameter than any Type I application (including Thing) except for Super fronts.

Big.Al · Post by **Big.Al** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:00 pm

Marc wrote:Type III shoes/drums are wider and larger in diameter than any Type I application (including Thing) except for Super fronts.

Thanks Marc (for your earlier comments also..)

So, for clarification... Type 3 rear drums are wider than thing or bug rear drums. Are we talking wide-5 type 3 rear drum? or only 4-lug type 3 rear drum? (trying to avoid any confusion.)

Do you see any difficulties with fitting them to a 68 bug rear axle?
(straying vaguely from the 181 topic...)

Al

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:33 pm

Big Al, What Mattt said. Thing and Bug of same year. I think the confusion is in that thing has wide drums and narrow rear shoes. Please use the thread Facts and Figures and Parts interchange . Its been a lot of help here thanks to Hanno for providing it. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

Mattt · Post by **Mattt** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:53 pm

Big.Al wrote:
Marc wrote:Type III shoes/drums are wider and larger in diameter than any Type I application (including Thing) except for Super fronts.
Thanks Marc (for your earlier comments also..)

So, for clarification... Type 3 rear drums are wider than thing or bug rear drums. Are we talking wide-5 type 3 rear drum? or only 4-lug type 3 rear drum? (trying to avoid any confusion.)

Do you see any difficulties with fitting them to a 68 bug rear axle?
(straying vaguely from the 181 topic...)

Al

T-3 DRUMS might not be wider than Thing drums. What is wider on T3 is the SHOE. Thats why folks want T3 rear brakes, because the part that does the stopping(the shoe) is wider.

The Thing DRUM is wider than a standard Bug DRUM in EXTERNAL dimensions. However, the surface that the shoe rides is is THE SAME on both. Putting the Thing drum on a Bug IRS rear will yield you a wider track by about 1/2" per side if Im not mistaken.

The 68+ Bug rear shoe is the same as Thing IRS rear shoes.

The drums are different both in lug pattern-4 lug vs. Wide 5- and overall width, but the shoes are the same.