headlight help

ericj8 · Post by **ericj8** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:35 pm

Both my lowbeams and highbeams won't come on. When I pull the light knob out to turn them on, the high beam indicator on my speedo comes on but nothing. I also cannot switch it back to low beam. I could hear the relay before click when I tried switching between the beams but now I don't hear anything.

Could the problem be the headlight switch? or the relay? or something else?

Thanks,

Eric

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:54 am

Eric do the tail lights come on when you turn the leadlights on? If so I would not suspect the switch. I`m not at all good at wiring but this will give you something to think about until someone comes by that knows what they are doing. Let us know about the tail lights also. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:38 am

From your symptoms it appears that there is more than one problem.
A good place to start is always cleaning the fuses and their contacts in the fusebox, maybe bending the latter in a bit to gain more tension on the fuses.
Since 1971 the headlamp part of the headlight switch gets its power from a different source than the tail/parkinglamp part - the "X" terminal on the ignition switch (so that the headlamps only will work when the key's on) so you could have a bad headlight (or ignition) switch and still have taillamps.
However, the high beam indicator lamp comes off of the headlamp side of one of the high beam fuses, so if it's coming on you should also have at least one high beam also unless the wiring from the fusebox to the headlamp, the bulb itself, or the ground for that bulb is bad. The presence of the indicator lamp should exonerate all of the switches & wiring up to that point, as well as the Hi/Lo relay. Bad connections where the brown headlamp ground wires are screwed to the body are not uncommon.
The Hi/Lo relay gets its operating power from fuse #10 along with the hazard flashers - if the 4-ways work but the Hi/Lo relay won't click, the relay may be bad or perhaps there's a problem with the ground side of the relay control circuit through the contacts in the t'signal switch - try using a jumper wire between ground and the "S" terminal on the relay to see if that makes it click. Even if it clicks it could still have bad contacts inside though...Try bypassing the relay by connecting the white/black input wire directly to the yellow (low beam) or white (high beam) output wire. If you decide to replace it you'll want the 5-pin version, although the pre`73 4-pin type will also work (it gets its control power from the headlight switch rather than the fusebox).

ericj8 · Post by **ericj8** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:12 pm

To Bob: yes my tail lights do come on. Off topic, what kind of engine do you got in your thing?

To Marc: Thanks for all the info.
I cannot switch back from high beam to low beam. I just went outside and my hazard lights aren't working either. When I pull out the knob, the indicator just comes on but does not blink. I also tried my turn signals and they don't work either. It seems like my problem just got bigger.

I already ordered a headlight relay, headlight switch, and emergency flasher switch earlier today. If this doesn't help, I just might take it to a electrician.

any more ideas?

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:36 pm

Eric I had the same problem on my thing once. I ran a jump lead from a hot wire on the fuse box up to the relay. I just touched it to excite the relay which clicked and worked . The relay began to function normaly again.
I have a type 4 engine in my thing. Its from a bus and still has the bus cooling. Have another from a 914 standing by to install soon. The transaxle is also bus.
When you get a chance use our introduction thread and tell us about yourself and your thing. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

ericj8 · Post by **ericj8** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:55 pm

Well, I already ordered the relay so I'll just wait for it to come in.

Where is the introduction thread?

I think I have a type 4 engine too. I'm still new to VWs so not sure. I know it is a pancake engine, 1.7 liter fuel injected with a 5 speed bus transmission.

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:59 pm

Eric a 1.7L is a bus engine but it should have a 4 speed unless it is a 1.7L 914 engine then it would be a five speed. Not handy to install into the thing though. Just a good old garden variety bus trans will let you run taller tires for ground clearance.
I`ll bump the introduction thread to the top for you.
Good luck . Bob Ingman

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:12 am

Eric glad you found this forum. You have a good car and good plans for it. I would like to see more pics of the engine install when you get them.I do not know of any others with a five speed. A lot of guys talk about it but there are a lot of complications and it seems that it does not get done very often.
If you go to http://www.thingtech.com you will find a section on electrical upgrades that might help you in the headlights. Keep hanging out here. Bob Ingman

ericj8 · Post by **ericj8** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:06 pm

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ericj8 · Post by **ericj8** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:08 pm

Thanks Marc for all your help. You were right on the money. My relay was bad and not getting good ground. My ground contacts were also not making good connection. I grounded the headlights directly to the car and replaced the relay. Everything works now except the highbeams but thats ok because I am going to get some off-road lights anyways.

I'm so glad I found this forum

2 more questions, does any wires connect to the "KBL" terminal on the relay? and the other is what is the small box, screwed to the car, next to the headlight relay?

thanks again

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:27 am

Eric I`ll leave the first question to marc and answer the second because it is Thing specific. That is the flasher. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

Post by **Marc** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:10 am

Eric, the only relay that should have a KBL terminal on it is the flasher. It's been years since I've seen under the dash of a Thing so you & Bob will need to work out the component identification - if you include the terminal numbers and/or wire colors going to the device it'll be easier.
The KBL terminal works off of an auxiliary contact in the flasher - it's there to send a ground to the pilot lamp in the speedo each time it sends power through to the t'signal switch (or hazard switch) so that the pilot lamp will flash in unison with the external lights. If you piggyback the wire to the pilot lamp onto the main flasher output (49a) the pilot lamp will still work but it'll flash alternate to the external lights.