The Question: How do I install a type 1 IRS into my 411? Probably use a type 3 engine.
Why: I've got a rusted hull of a 411. The Auto transaxle is in a million pieces. (Spider gear blew up) I salvaged everything I could off of it and now I'm going to enter it into a figure 8 crash up derby.
I don't care how sloppy of an install it is, just so long as it lasts 2 rounds in the crash up derby. I can weld, chain, or strap anything together, I just need to know how to do it. If a Standard type 1 trans is too tough, what would you suggest? I"ve got an auto type 3, standard type 2 (from a bus with a type 4 engine), and maybe a spare type 4 auto trans.
Actually....I would say there are a whole lot of parts that could have been slavaged from that vehicle. Almost every part on type 4's are rare. Especially suspension parts....body parts etc. Most especially glass. I would have used a type 3 or a bug long before wasting parts from a 411.
Anyway...you will probably find it extremely hard...if not impossible to install a type 1 based tranny of any kind in this vehicle. The shift linkage will not fit type 1, the clutch in the type 4 is hydraulic, the rear frame member mount is totally different. The differential section from a type 3 auto will bolt into the bell housing in about 20 minutes on the garage floor. Since the differential section is seperate, it bolts into the bell houseing of either type 3 or 4 like a "cartridge" and the type 4 uses the type 3 differential unit. The only difference in the two trannys is the bell housing outer dimensions.
My personal thoughts are that a lo of rare parts are getting wasted....but as long as you are having fun. Ray
Exactly, I hope you strip that thing clean before you wreck it up...glass, interior, undamaged removable panels...Good thing I'm more of a fan of the 412 otherwise I might be more upset
I actually had two 411's. Glass, panels, latches, dash parts, seats, hinges..... you name it, I gave them to a guy who has a 411 he's rebuilding. The car was pretty well rusted and dented to start with. I'll give the leftovers to the guy when I"m done.
OK so it looks like I'll have to install the other type4 auto that I have. Which means I"ll have to try and match up a type3 to it. Anythoughts on that?
Oh yeah, I know it sounds crazy to come into a 411 forum and say "You know that car you guys love so much, I"m going to crash it for fun". I'm not crazy, trust me.
I still don't understand, why not just use a type IV engine? Type IV car is somewhat rare, the Type IV engine is not. What happened to the engine in it, I thought there were pictures of you jumping it on thesamba.com?
ubercrap wrote:I still don't understand, why not just use a type IV engine? Type IV car is somewhat rare, the Type IV engine is not. What happened to the engine in it, I thought there were pictures of you jumping it on thesamba.com?
I've still got the engine, and it runs fairly well. But I was hoping to spare it and give it to someone that needs it. (See the whole, don't crucify me because I'm doing the best I can.) I have to take the engine and trans out as it is, I just thought I'd use some cheap common parts before I risked sending more "rare" stuff to the crusher.
The engine and tranny are common. The body parts and suspension are quite rare compared to other VW's. For instance....only about 2500 of the 2 door sedans were shipped. There are perhaps about 2-300 type 4's running on this continent. The front and rear fenders and the doors would have brought a decentg profit.
If you have the type 4 auto tranny, look inside the bell housing. You will see aring of bolts. Get a type 3 auto tranny...late model with the through bolts that go through the CV flanges. Take the flanges off of the type 4. Un-do all of the bolts in the bell housing. The entire differential pulls out in its own cast-iron carrier. Work of art really. Slide in the type 3 diff, re-do the bolts, put in new side seals and put the drive flanges back on. You are done. I would tell you to spend an extra 10 minutes and $12 and replace the differential to transfer box seal...but since you are going to trash it...who cares. But, for that matter, you could drop in the whole type 3 auto tranny (it uses the same rear mount) as the upper crossbar from the type 4 and simpy bolt a bug engine to it. Without the rear hanger...you will get perhaps 200 miles out of it before the flexing on the drive line destroys the tranny...but again, you are just making scrap metal so have at it. Ray
Thanks for the info ray, it's nice finding a knowledgable individual to bounce idea's off of. I'll tell ya what, after it's all said and done if anyone wants anything, I'll try and save it for you, maybe bring it to the next classic, free. I'll go check and see if any body panels are still ok on the other car I have.
After the driving just in the pictures you posted, there will no longer be a single useful piece of the suspension left. I would have to spend to much time measuring it before installing it. Also I would not risk my investent on something I knew to be abused...but thanks for the offer. It looks like you are having fun....but if you come across another type 4...you might want to see what parts are going for. Though a few people are screeching about parts cost now....they are going to skyrocket in teh next year or so. The amount of people restoring these vehicles has just about doubled in the last two years. You could have sold the gasoline furnace for enough to pay for 3 or 4 american hulks to do the same thing with...not to mention glass...instruments etc. I actually have no shortage of parts...but others do. Fenders around here go for $100-200 for 411/412. Good luck. Ray
I just pulled it. It worked just fine this past winter. I've also got a spare one I've got to pull out of another one. I was going to use them in my baja this winter, but if they are going for a good price I'd rather sell them and freeze. I've still got some glass and some gauges.
IF ANYBODY WANTS A PART. E-mail me at kanabvw@yahoo.com, I'll see if I can get them down to the classic.
