I can hardly wait to get my war wagon on the road. dennis74 412 war wagon
-
67 T1
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:03 pm
74 412 war wagon
All, hate to take up space here, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this forum. In LA (lower Alabama) there aren't too many VW enthusiast, let alone many 'drivable' 411/412. I recently (Nov 03) purchased two 74 wagons, one good w/auto, one not so good w/manual. I've been working on my 74' T-181 but am nearing resolution with it and will soon start on the 412 automatic. It has a severe tranny leak. I printed a discussion on this subject off of this forum. Before that, I had no idea where to start or what to look for. I can't recall who all the contributors were, but THANKS ! I can hardly wait to get my war wagon on the road. dennis
I can hardly wait to get my war wagon on the road. dennis-
DeathBus
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:01 am
-
67 T1
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:03 pm
Deathbus,
That was me. I hated that I could not help him, had an extra generator belt, but as I'm sure you know, he has a T4 engine. Plus I was fairly hung-over from my trip to the big city.
I've completed (for the most part) work on my T-181, and moved my 412 onto my pad. Will start project today on taking engine out and try to figure out why the tranny leaks like crap through a goose. The previous owner told me the engine (EC) was rebuilt less than 3K ago by a Porsche shop in Atlanta (it looks Fantastic!). It has single center mounted carb, looks to be a Webber 2 barrel progressive.
I've read many of the posts, has anyone discussed a sequential order for getting a car back on the road? Mine has been sitting for between 3 - 5 years.
Brakes. Just bleed and check pads, or replace/rebuild cylinders, breaklines (rubber), new shoes?
I've got more questions than space to write them.
That was me. I hated that I could not help him, had an extra generator belt, but as I'm sure you know, he has a T4 engine. Plus I was fairly hung-over from my trip to the big city.
I've completed (for the most part) work on my T-181, and moved my 412 onto my pad. Will start project today on taking engine out and try to figure out why the tranny leaks like crap through a goose. The previous owner told me the engine (EC) was rebuilt less than 3K ago by a Porsche shop in Atlanta (it looks Fantastic!). It has single center mounted carb, looks to be a Webber 2 barrel progressive.
I've read many of the posts, has anyone discussed a sequential order for getting a car back on the road? Mine has been sitting for between 3 - 5 years.
Brakes. Just bleed and check pads, or replace/rebuild cylinders, breaklines (rubber), new shoes?
I've got more questions than space to write them.
-
DeathBus
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:01 am
First things first.
Is the body rust and dent free? If so you have a prime canidate. If they are wagons you dont have to worry with the dreaded engine lid rust issue. If they are full of rust you can try using them as drivers, if you try to restore them it's pretty cost prohibative, unless you are a millionare!
Per the tranny, is it the Auto or Manual tranny thats leaking? If it's the manual, there are several old threads about replacing the seals and master and slave cylinders. Not quite sure there are any auto tranny threads, although I know where there are spare auto tranmissions.
Going through the rest of the car is quite simple, bleeding brakes etc. If the front end shimmies and shakes you might need to rebuild it, most of the parts are available for this.
Is the body rust and dent free? If so you have a prime canidate. If they are wagons you dont have to worry with the dreaded engine lid rust issue. If they are full of rust you can try using them as drivers, if you try to restore them it's pretty cost prohibative, unless you are a millionare!
Per the tranny, is it the Auto or Manual tranny thats leaking? If it's the manual, there are several old threads about replacing the seals and master and slave cylinders. Not quite sure there are any auto tranny threads, although I know where there are spare auto tranmissions.
Going through the rest of the car is quite simple, bleeding brakes etc. If the front end shimmies and shakes you might need to rebuild it, most of the parts are available for this.
-
67 T1
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:03 pm
DeathBus;
On the better of the two 412s, Body is in great shape, only a few minor dents (no bondo either). Very few rusty places. We are speaking of a wagon so the engine has been dry, also, rebuilt/restoration about 3K back. The underside of the front hood (over the grill) is the only rusty area, and it stretches across the length of the hood. I have an extra hood and two extra front fenders, and am about to get another set of bumpers (free !). (I'll try to post a pic on Thesamba soon and let all know).
The tranny is an auto.
I was going to drop the engine yesterday but didn't get home until 4 p.m. (had National Guard drill), and then the rain set in.
By the by, I know where there are two 'relatively' good 412 wagons, one has an A/C unit I believe. Before I acquired mine, I asked the guy for a price for one, he stated $1K (too much !!). Both have been sitting for ??, and show the wear. If you or anyone you know are interested, let me know and I'll try to find the number and point of contact.
On the better of the two 412s, Body is in great shape, only a few minor dents (no bondo either). Very few rusty places. We are speaking of a wagon so the engine has been dry, also, rebuilt/restoration about 3K back. The underside of the front hood (over the grill) is the only rusty area, and it stretches across the length of the hood. I have an extra hood and two extra front fenders, and am about to get another set of bumpers (free !). (I'll try to post a pic on Thesamba soon and let all know).
The tranny is an auto.
I was going to drop the engine yesterday but didn't get home until 4 p.m. (had National Guard drill), and then the rain set in.
By the by, I know where there are two 'relatively' good 412 wagons, one has an A/C unit I believe. Before I acquired mine, I asked the guy for a price for one, he stated $1K (too much !!). Both have been sitting for ??, and show the wear. If you or anyone you know are interested, let me know and I'll try to find the number and point of contact.
-
DeathBus
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:01 am
$1k huh? A little to rich for my blood. I dont know of another soul in this state besides you and me that even mess with these cars, no wait there is some old dude in Anniston that has some scrap wagons and I think he has a runner, and yeah there is Elmore up in Bailyton who lets tress grow around his 2 doors.
-
67 T1
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:03 pm
So then there were three. I see that Ray and others are predicting a 412 revolution, maybe it will come to fruition. Possilby in 10 years I could get back what I paid for mine Well, I'm glad to know that there is at least one other drivable 412 in the State.
Are there any events scheduled in B'ham. Also, what is the local club there? Website?
Montgomery has a club, can't recall the new name, used to be OVAL (Old Volkswagens of Alabama) {always thought OVAL was a great name}. Still have not joined, don't know why not. They meet at a resturant on Atlanta highway the last weekend of the month. Perhaps I may show up in three weeks in my 412 ! I'll keep you posted. dhm
Well, I'm glad to know that there is at least one other drivable 412 in the State. Are there any events scheduled in B'ham. Also, what is the local club there? Website?
Montgomery has a club, can't recall the new name, used to be OVAL (Old Volkswagens of Alabama) {always thought OVAL was a great name}. Still have not joined, don't know why not. They meet at a resturant on Atlanta highway the last weekend of the month. Perhaps I may show up in three weeks in my 412 ! I'll keep you posted. dhm
-
DeathBus
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:01 am
http://www.centralalvwclub.com/
We got a show coming up on the 29th, be cool as HELL to have 2 412's there! They always stick me with the Type 3's and I always loose out to some stock Type 3 Fasty.
We got a show coming up on the 29th, be cool as HELL to have 2 412's there! They always stick me with the Type 3's and I always loose out to some stock Type 3 Fasty.
-
raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Problem with type 4's...and what people are willing to pay for them...is this. Lets say you come across a bug for...$6000-7000. Lets say its a basic '70 model. What do you think you would see ...that would make you pay $6000-7000? And lots of people pay that much for bugs all over he place.
Well...if the bug is not a rip off....you would see a runner, with nice paint...no runs or bondo, no dents, maybe a stock pan with no rust. You will see a completly new interior ...all bought from all of the people who make brand new resto interiors...a repro dash etc. The tranny, probably a basic rebuild...but basically got another 70-100k in in it. The engine may be bone stock...but totally rebuilt. New brakes. New everything on the suspension...new rubber on the glass. Not missing any gas tank boots etc etc etc.
On a bug....all of this is cake. I can collect ALL of the parts for most anything but a Hebmueller or a 67 in a weekend (money not with standing).
Now if youu drove by the average 411/412..with the same condition...would you give $5k for it? I would bet an awful lot of people would. Problem is, they don't exist yet. The second problem is that a lot of people by these for cheap....because nothing works on them anymore....and either sel them again or give up...and drive them as they bought them...which is a recipe for an early grave. I tell people to slow down with these when you get them. If you drive them before you have the right stuff replaced...you will break things you can cannot replace.
Its a race against time actually. Parts for these have been disapearing by the day since I got my first license. It has not slowed down. I find just as many people right now buying them to cut up for the engine or for demolition derbies...as I od people restorong them. I say you get one, and if you are serious about wanting to preserve and drive it on a regular basis, start replacing evreything NOW. Parts will only get scarcer for things like the suspension and 4 speed tranny. If you only replace what looks immediately bad.....hoping that other parts wil be there when the things you didn't replace go bad....you will fail. Ray
Well...if the bug is not a rip off....you would see a runner, with nice paint...no runs or bondo, no dents, maybe a stock pan with no rust. You will see a completly new interior ...all bought from all of the people who make brand new resto interiors...a repro dash etc. The tranny, probably a basic rebuild...but basically got another 70-100k in in it. The engine may be bone stock...but totally rebuilt. New brakes. New everything on the suspension...new rubber on the glass. Not missing any gas tank boots etc etc etc.
On a bug....all of this is cake. I can collect ALL of the parts for most anything but a Hebmueller or a 67 in a weekend (money not with standing).
Now if youu drove by the average 411/412..with the same condition...would you give $5k for it? I would bet an awful lot of people would. Problem is, they don't exist yet. The second problem is that a lot of people by these for cheap....because nothing works on them anymore....and either sel them again or give up...and drive them as they bought them...which is a recipe for an early grave. I tell people to slow down with these when you get them. If you drive them before you have the right stuff replaced...you will break things you can cannot replace.
Its a race against time actually. Parts for these have been disapearing by the day since I got my first license. It has not slowed down. I find just as many people right now buying them to cut up for the engine or for demolition derbies...as I od people restorong them. I say you get one, and if you are serious about wanting to preserve and drive it on a regular basis, start replacing evreything NOW. Parts will only get scarcer for things like the suspension and 4 speed tranny. If you only replace what looks immediately bad.....hoping that other parts wil be there when the things you didn't replace go bad....you will fail. Ray
-
67 T1
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:03 pm
Thanks Deathbus and Ray.
Failure is not an option. I am commited to my 412 (as well as my 67 sedan). I've printed about half the posts in this forum to gain information, for which I am dreadfully lacking. I'm very appreciative of those with knowledge (and even input from those like myself who only have a 'working' knowledge) who share that knowledge with we upstarts.
Deathbus, is that 29 June (Tuesday)? Never mind, just looked up and saw the banner "Heart of Dixie VW show"...doh.
Found out today I have to go to Ft. Bragg for a week starting tomorrow. This may knock me out of contention for driving the T4 up, but......
Failure is not an option. I am commited to my 412 (as well as my 67 sedan). I've printed about half the posts in this forum to gain information, for which I am dreadfully lacking. I'm very appreciative of those with knowledge (and even input from those like myself who only have a 'working' knowledge) who share that knowledge with we upstarts.
Deathbus, is that 29 June (Tuesday)? Never mind, just looked up and saw the banner "Heart of Dixie VW show"...doh.
Found out today I have to go to Ft. Bragg for a week starting tomorrow. This may knock me out of contention for driving the T4 up, but......
-
67 T1
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:03 pm
The 29th of Aug should be doable, with a little luck/patience/intestional fortitude. Nope, not a Ranger. I work in the Mobilization shop at the State HQ here in Mont. We've got a unit that will deploy this week to Bragg. Going up to facilitate/arbitrate/coordinate their transition to Active service.
Perhaps on your/Rays advice I should revisit those 412s I mentioned previously. Thanks for the web address.
Perhaps on your/Rays advice I should revisit those 412s I mentioned previously. Thanks for the web address.
-
ubercrap
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:00 pm
I've started hoarding already, just to make sure stuff doesn't get thrown away or wasted, though I think those master cylinders I got aren't quite right? I'll have to examine more closely... Anyway, what sucks is that driving those two weekends to get the two 412's took a lot out of me. I might have gone to get that 4dr. in KS, but I was just too tired for 16 hours of driving. Plus, it's hard to find a place to put a bunch of cars. Hey, did anyone buy those 2dr. cars from Elmore yet, or was he ever really serious about selling them?
-
raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Hording mode is good. I have a lot of parts from this. If you find a 411/412....lets says its either majorly crushed...or has major...major rust. Like most of the pans gone, chassis rust throughs the size of your fist. Thos cars will never drive again. There is no pan to remove. Buy them for cheap if possible. Like $100-200. Strip everything. If it has fenders and doors you don't need and take up space....give them away if you cannot sell them. At least that way, they will be in someones shed...even if they cannot use them. But...what you take away, is all of the suspension...save the rear beam. Its rare that gets destroyed. All plastic parts...all glass....all lights. Dash....switches...seat belts. All of the kinds of stuff you will up buckets with. Its all of these litttle parts that get hard to find. An extra from subframe and a pair of struts and a centerlink are good things to have.
The last few days, I have been planning kits for the front end. I have fixes...good ones... for everything. When work stabilizes in the fall, I may start making parts again. I am trying to find time for the D-jet diaphrams...but it looks like end of July.
I also have a design, that may allow the use of a commonly available ball joint from an american car...a stiffer one...to be used with a milled holder. I am consulting with someone about the machine work. The bracket will be made from...of all things....a rear stub axle from a rabbit,jetta, golf..
More soon. Ray
The last few days, I have been planning kits for the front end. I have fixes...good ones... for everything. When work stabilizes in the fall, I may start making parts again. I am trying to find time for the D-jet diaphrams...but it looks like end of July.
I also have a design, that may allow the use of a commonly available ball joint from an american car...a stiffer one...to be used with a milled holder. I am consulting with someone about the machine work. The bracket will be made from...of all things....a rear stub axle from a rabbit,jetta, golf..
More soon. Ray-
DeathBus
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:01 am
I dont know what Elmore's deal was, I am sure he would consider another offer, but I think he wants the full price for those 3 cars, wouldnt hurt emailing him. I am not interested in them anymore, tooo much history there. Plus there is a 2 door down the way for cheap if I ever want the extra punishment
I might be stumbling into a wagon here soon, the roof paint is waaaaaaaaaay gone and the front of the hood is so rusted it's like soft plastic when you bend it. If I dont get it on the road, PARTS CITY. I just wish I could find a front windshield! Mine has about 2 inches of cloud around it.
I might be stumbling into a wagon here soon, the roof paint is waaaaaaaaaay gone and the front of the hood is so rusted it's like soft plastic when you bend it. If I dont get it on the road, PARTS CITY. I just wish I could find a front windshield! Mine has about 2 inches of cloud around it.