No timing marks . . . I have read thru the archives

[justinshelton]

Guys -

Yet another Type 4 plagued with no or incoherent timing marks.

Mine's a '71 411 4-dr sedan with AT. I put on a pertronix, and now that I've going to set the timing (first time on this particular car to set the timing) all I can find is a sort of double-thick fan fin where I am pretty sure 27 or 32 or whatever degrees this is supposed to be timed from at 3500 RPM. I cannot find ANY timing marks on my car . . . The car runs and starts, but sounds pretty retarded, and however much I move the dist. in the clockwise direction, I can't seem to get it to disappear. By any means, I'm just timing by ear, and that's not good. I prefer the reliability of the strobe light!

Another question that bothers me about Type 4s. Where do you attach the + side of a timing gun? I have always used a jumper cable as a sort of extension cord for the clip that is supposed to go on the + side of the battery. Surely there's something in the engine to attach to?

[DeathBus]

Attach to the + of the coil. Your timing mark can be seen through the little cap on the shroad. It uscrews and there will be a notch on the shroud. When you see a red mark in the notch, you have it timed.

[justinshelton]

Thanks, DeathBus. The issue here is that as I aim the timing light into the little hole with its cap off, I cannot find ANY timing marks!

Should it be on that sort of extra wide fan blade?

Is the dot just pointed on the metal, or it it painted into a little bored out spot?

I have tried advancing and retarding the timing from that wider fan blade as it lines up with the triangle cut-out, but with no success either way.

Other thoughts?

- Justin

[justinshelton]

Forgot to addd, but this is one of those days when I am really hating my car!

(there - that's off my chest)

[DeathBus]

with the cap off the shroad do you see the notch ON the SHROAD?

[raygreenwood]

Bear this in mind. Most of the type 4's do not have a "notch" for "0". They have a "0" for "0". The stamped zero is many times...very light. As DB is trying to ask....can you see the "V" shaped notch that is cast into the cooling housing when you look down through the hole? It is on the engine side of the cooling manifold...not on the exhaust side. The marks will appear in that notch. Disregard the fan blades....nothing on them for timing. The best way to check this...is to set the distributro with its pointer at the notch on the distributor body. If all is correct , that will roughly be with the rotor pointing to the 4 or 5 oclock position...both valves closed on #1. Now...with a very bright flashlight....look down through the plug hole in the cooling manifold. See the V-notch? slowly turn the engine in one direction...then the other. Look for the "0". There should b also..a red or black notch in the ring around the fan that appears in the V-notch....that corresponds to the 27 BTDC reading. ALWAYS carefully adjust the valves before adjusting timing...and then check your max advance by setting the timing with hoses disconnected....to 27 BTDC at 3500 rpm on fuel injected engines. Ray

[justinshelton]

Thanks yet again, Ray. I have never timed this car, and it's has proved be to a big PINTA. It will have to wait until Saturday as I'm now two hours away . . .

I sure wish I would have taken off the air intake boot and heater blower motor for all the time I had my head shoved into the back of that car. I assume that that way I can turn the engine with a big wrench, right? Or, can it be done from the alt pulley?

- Justin

[raygreenwood]

Timing this car is actually very easily...providing a little ground work is done. Generally, unless this is the very last of the 412's where all of the dealer timing was done from the crankcase sensor....there should be a tming mark. They generally get a little dirty and oily. Several things will make working on the pulley easier. (1) pop out the leaf screen. that way, leaning in does not keep cracking it. (2) if your boot is in very good shape, its als simple to pop the boot off of the large plastic funnel, remove the clamp from the air cleaner connection, pull the plug from the fan and the two hoses..and remove the two large phillips screws from the plastic funel. I can do mine in about 5 minutes flat...and remove the whoe funnel.
No...you cannot turn the fan with a wrench.....but if the pulley is tensioned properly...you can turn...as you surmised...the alternator pulley...with a socket. Clockwise only.

the other way....and you must use a long screwdriver...andbe very careful....is to turn....the fan through the timing hole by prying lightly on the blades. Turn it counter clockwise only. CAUTION...if you forget to remove the screwdriver and try to start...your fan is toast.

Its easiest to remove the fan once...get the timing marks nice and clean..then set it by turning the pulley on the alternator. Ray

[DeathBus]

While you have all the stuff off, check for broken blades on your fan. When doing mine the first time, I found four blades missing. It does make a difference!