Hello & peace to all, I have been looking for a long time to buy a type4 and have come close a couple of times with no cigar. Each of these times I tapped into the wisedom of this great forum with questions. Well, this time its real close. The owner lives 4 blockd away and its a 74 412 auto wagen in pretty good shape. the owner knows little about the car and on the phone he says that it won't start, so he had the ignition and starter changed, still won't start. What should I check for when I go see it tomorrow? can I hot wire it just to hear the motor run? is is possible that the auto tranny safety switch is sticking/ can I bypass it? Also he says its been sitting a while and the breaks are siezed. Whats the best way to un-sieze them. Also does a 74 have a D or L jetronic or. Any and all ideas or thoughts are truely appreciated.
TIA
hisham
412 won't start
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DeathBus
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:01 am
So the engine doesnt turn over at all?
- If not, can you put the car in nuetral and with a 13mm socket turn the motor over by hand? (to do this you must remove the air intake boot from the cooling shroad and put the socket in the middle of the fan, turn clockwise)
Do the dash lights come on when the ignition is turned to the start position?
- Is the battery good?
- If not, can you put the car in nuetral and with a 13mm socket turn the motor over by hand? (to do this you must remove the air intake boot from the cooling shroad and put the socket in the middle of the fan, turn clockwise)
Do the dash lights come on when the ignition is turned to the start position?
- Is the battery good?
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Guest
Please bear in mind that its all been through the phone so far, ok. Yes from what I understand the engine doesn?t budge. I will try the socket trick but I?d like to have the motor run as well. I think the dash comes on and the battery he says is solid. How about the auto tranny sefety switch idea that I mentioned earlier? Any possibilities? Thanks for your thoughts.
hisham
hisham
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Yes, it very well could be the neutral safety switch. Please define...won't start. Doed it turn over and just not fire?...or not turn over at all. As DB mentioned, if the lights on the dash all come on....and you hear the fuel pump buzz for a second....and then no turnover,....make a note....did you hear the relay under the dash click? If not...check that and check the ground to the relay. Check the ground starp at the battery and on the end of the tranny. Try starting in neutral. Also...get a good non flammable fast evaporating terminal cleaner spray...take the face plate off by the shifter...and lightly spray the white contact bundle under the plate. Do not melt that face plate. Getting hard to find nice ones.Make sure your seat belt is buckled.....there is a kill switch circuit on most models. If you are seated...and it is still working...and you have not made the seat belt connection, it will trigger the neutral safety switch.
If it is really a 74...it will be L-jet.
Are the brakes locked because the rotors are heavily rusted...or because the pistons are rusted outward? Its going to mean pulling the wheels either way. Ray
If it is really a 74...it will be L-jet.
Are the brakes locked because the rotors are heavily rusted...or because the pistons are rusted outward? Its going to mean pulling the wheels either way. Ray
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Guest
raygreenwood wrote:Yes, it very well could be the neutral safety switch. Please define...won't start.Doed it turn over and just not fire?...or not turn over at all. As DB mentioned, if the lights on the dash all come on....and you hear the fuel pump buzz for a second....and then no turnover,....
Well, I went to see the car this after noon. Now its at the point where the battery is dead but the owner said that earlier the lights would come on and hew would have to turn the key on & off nay times till the juice finally gets to the starter. I am gonna get a battery and hook it up and see what goes on.
Will do.raygreenwood wrote: make a note....did you hear the relay under the dash click? If not...check that and check the ground to the relay. Check the ground starp at the battery and on the end of the tranny. Try starting in neutral.
Not sure what you mean by melting it. Do you mean a terminal cleaner could melt it? what material is it?raygreenwood wrote: Also...get a good non flammable fast evaporating terminal cleaner spray...take the face plate off by the shifter...and lightly spray the white contact bundle under the plate. Do not melt that face plate. Getting hard to find nice ones.
Will do. it is a 74 and Ljet. too bad I am more familiar with D jet from my 70 Type 3 now I got a new learning curve to climb.raygreenwood wrote: Make sure your seat belt is buckled.....there is a kill switch circuit on most models. If you are seated...and it is still working...and you have not made the seat belt connection, it will trigger the neutral safety switch. If it is really a 74...it will be L-jet.
I think the latter. He said if you pull the car with a truck or similar they will unlock. How else do you unlock the pistons? do you basically hit the drums till they break loose? Also the title of the car is in the glove compartment and it is locked and no key. Any ideas how to open the glove box without a key? Oh, he wants $500 for it, good engine & tranny, no rust, some body work needed from dents & dings and a paint job.raygreenwood wrote: Are the brakes locked because the rotors are heavily rusted...or because the pistons are rusted outward? Its going to mean pulling the wheels either way. Ray
TIA
Hisham
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Guest
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Gloved title?
You could dismount the glove box strap and get the box compartment out from under the dash I think with a phillips or 10mm? Bill
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Beat me too it! Yep, take the glove box off from the back. Do not break that lock. There are way to get around that problem and original glove box latches do not grow on trees. Ray-
Guest
ok, thanks people for the help & guidance. As to other points, Ray said earlier that it very well could be the neutral safety switch. Please define...won't start.Doed it turn over and just not fire?...or not turn over at all. As DB mentioned, if the lights on the dash all come on.......
Well, I went to see the car this after noon. Now its at the point where the battery is dead but the owner said that earlier the lights would come on and hew would have to turn the key on & off nay times till the juice finally gets to the starter. I am gonna get a battery and hook it up and see what goes on.
raygreenwood Also said ...get a good non flammable fast evaporating terminal cleaner spray.... Do not melt that face plate. Getting hard to find nice ones.
I am not sure what you mean by melting it. Do you mean a terminal cleaner could melt it? what material is it?
BTW, the car is a 74 and Ljet. too bad I am more familiar with D jet from my 70 Type 3 now I got a new learning curve to climb. Any general assumptions as which of the 2 systems is better or easier to replace parts on?
As to the brakes. he said if you pull the car with a truck or similar they will unlock. How else do you unlock the pistons? do you basically hit the drums till they break loose? Also the title of the car is in the glove compartment and it is locked and no key. Any ideas how to open the glove box without a key? Oh, I almost forgot, he wants $500 for it, good engine & tranny, no rust, some body work needed from dents & dings and a paint job.
TIA
Hisham
Well, I went to see the car this after noon. Now its at the point where the battery is dead but the owner said that earlier the lights would come on and hew would have to turn the key on & off nay times till the juice finally gets to the starter. I am gonna get a battery and hook it up and see what goes on.
raygreenwood Also said ...get a good non flammable fast evaporating terminal cleaner spray.... Do not melt that face plate. Getting hard to find nice ones.
I am not sure what you mean by melting it. Do you mean a terminal cleaner could melt it? what material is it?
BTW, the car is a 74 and Ljet. too bad I am more familiar with D jet from my 70 Type 3 now I got a new learning curve to climb. Any general assumptions as which of the 2 systems is better or easier to replace parts on?
As to the brakes. he said if you pull the car with a truck or similar they will unlock. How else do you unlock the pistons? do you basically hit the drums till they break loose? Also the title of the car is in the glove compartment and it is locked and no key. Any ideas how to open the glove box without a key? Oh, I almost forgot, he wants $500 for it, good engine & tranny, no rust, some body work needed from dents & dings and a paint job.
TIA
Hisham
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ubercrap
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:00 pm
Nothing wrong with $500 for an decent restorable 412 I don't think. As far as the brakes are concerned, I would try to pull the car a little bit to break them loose. On one of my 412's, one of the rear drums was frozen when I picked it up, so I jacked it up and tapped it with a sledgehammer and it broke loose. I don't know if that's the best idea, but it works. I kind of used some moderate blows striking the drum as if I was trying to rotate it and that's what finally did the trick.
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Guest
I am going to try and get her started tonight and will be armed with all the advice I got here. I think am getting me a type 4 and not even sure what I am getting myself into screwing with a beast I know little about!!. I hope I can pull through. Thank you all a million times for helping a starnger. Hisham
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67 T1
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:03 pm
I have just encountered the "froze" rear wheel. First thing I did was loosen any tension on the pads from the calipers (brake cylinder), lifted the wheel bearly off the ground, supported with jack stand, then attempted to work the wheel back and forth by hand. As it wouldn't budge, I took my tire iron and place on a lug and was able to apply enough force to budge it, then went back to doing it by hand. Once I could get it to move back and forth, took the tire off and did the hammer trick as mentioned previously. Then tapped the rear of the drum until it came off. bada-bing.