puttin the 412 in Neutral

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:16 pm

Well I got to the car and it wont start so I'll work
on the stuck brakes and push her home. Being an auto novice, how do you free up the back wheels from being in park? can you put the car in N without running? do you need the key for that? Once in N, can I push her home 4 blocks away?
thanks for any advice.
hisham

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:35 pm

Carfully check the shift pattern. Its on the dash to the right on the glove box. Notice it looks strange? Its because on the 411/412...you LIFT UP on the shift lever knob to get out of park. It drops down into reverse....and has to be lifted up again to get into neutral.
See the plate around the shifter base that says: P,R,N D,2,1 ?....The neutral safety switch is under that plate. It is a squarish beige switch...like made of nylon....with about 4-6 wires going to it. It pays to clean that with contact cleaner. Be careful...as I noted....some contact cleaners can melt the plastic faceplate...so pull it up to the shift knob, out of the way. Do not go more than a mile or two with the car in neutral...and the engine not running. Without the engine running the ATF piump does not circulate fluid. It can burn up at highway speeds.

Also.....as I asked......did you sit down in the car...and fasten your seat belt? If not...the car will not start. If anything over 20 lbs is in the front passenger seat and the seat belt is not fastened.....the car will notstart.

Also, lift the drivers seat. See the battery? Are there any loose wires close by? There is one that plugs onto either the positive or negative....that will keep you from starting. Check them. Ignore the yellow wire with the red stripe...floating around loose under your seat. that one plagued me for years. It was hooked to a little float gauge on the factory battery. It goes to the diagnostic test harness plug in the engine compartment. It told the mechanic wether the electrolyte was low....amazing

. Also check that the very long single wire in the gray cable cover.....on the right hand side of the vehicle...is hooked to the starter. The cable cover has the habit of shrinking up and popping this wire loose. It is the solenoid energizer wire. the car will not start without it.

Also...try this. Get a new ignition switch...they are cheap. Pull the plactic cover off the outside of the ignition/steering wheel area. It has a top and bottom part and two screws. Grab the plug at the back of the ignition switch...and pull it right off. Its just a plug. Plug in the new ignition switch...and turn it with the key. If its a bad ignition switch (common)...it should start right up.

After cleaning the neutral safety switch and checking the battery connections, the starter wire connection and the ignition switch AND the three ground wire bundles on the case centerline of the engine under the fuel injection manifold, the ground wire for the relay either in the engine comparment (left side rear)....or the ground wire on the relay attached to the brain under the right hand back seat armrest....and .....DO ALL OF THIS........THEN
sit down in the drivers seat. Buckle the seat belt....just DO IT. Push the shifter lever all the way forward into park....firmly! Then, put your foot on the brake....push it....hold it......put the key in and see if it starts. Ray

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:12 pm

Thank you very much Ray for a well laid out troubleshooting badly needed by a novice. My immediate goal is to get the car rolling so I can get it home. Once there, I'll have the ability to work on it with methodical patience. Once she is home, I'll get sucker running right wheather she likes or not. This car is exactly the color I waited so long for. Its that light blue metallic, I think its called Alaska Blue but not sure what the code for 74 calls it. The best 3 colors for the Type 4 sedan IMHO are the light blue metallic, silver metallic, green metallic, and it looks like I am landing one of them

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:37 pm

The light silver blue (sometimes looks greenish in the sunset)...metallic is L-96m marathon. The dark blue that is similar to what you see on some new-beetles and late vanagons is the alaska blue. The peacock green is really hard to find. That was really nice too. It was a 74 only I think. Ray

Longbeach412 · Post by **Longbeach412** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:45 am

Based on your description I am positive the one I am buying is the Marathon Blue. I'll verify that when I remove the glove box and open the hood. Is this the peacock green?
http://www.vw411-412besitzer.de/wolfsbu ... _gross.jpg
Hisham

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:42 am

No ...its not! But damn....where is that car? Did you also notice that its a sunroof model from the factory? I have never seen one of those in person in my life...on this continent. That looks like a custom color. It has German plates. What a beautiful car. I would shoot or maim most of you for that car.

Ray

Longbeach412 · Post by **Longbeach412** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:34 am

That car, among others, is my inspiration. It belongs to a member of the german 411/412 group. I believe a german guy introduced himself to the type4 group on this list and offered the link to the group and you even redirected him at the time to the 411/412 group on this list. There many other pics of great 411s & 412s. the way they should be. BTW, I lived in germany for 10yrs and attended vw gatherings and say some great type 4s. since then I got hooked! Also, I got to the car again and got it rolling and hooked up the battery. Well, it doesn't turn over, no juice to starter. I also hear the relays click but no pump humming. I told the guy this is not working, let me get the car and push it home. Then, I'll have the time and convenience of troubleshooting it like to entailed earlier. Thanks for all the advice. Hisham

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:21 pm

Ray you gotta be shitten me about fastening your seatbelt.

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:02 pm

It's called "Interlock" or something like that.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:38 pm

Nope...its all true. Its tied to that seat belt light on the late models on the right side of the dash, next to the headlight switch. On early 411's, I think it was also tied into the brake warning light. Can't remember.

But under each front seat, against the front seat mount area, you will find a 2 prong socket screwed to the pan. That plugs into the pressure switch inside of each seat. I belive it interupted the ground for the starter relay under the dash. If you look on the inside area of each seat bottom pannel...just under the piping...near the shifter....you will find a zipper about 3" long. Inside of that is a strip contact that runs from side to side. A lot of people had that unplugged. Its usually tucked up under the seat in the springs. It also set off that buzzer. I think the very last year models, it may not have interuppted the igntion anymore...butsimply ran the buzzer and that red seat belt light. I always said these cars were way ahead of their times in many little details. Ask the 4 door owners about the child safety locks on the rear doors.

.I used to lock my friends in into the back seat in my 411 in highschool. Ray

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:54 pm

Yes I have done the safety lock also, in both the 412 and the golf, pretty funny! I will have to check my car out and see if all that stuff is there!

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:41 pm

That is a nice car on that link! There isnt a Marathon Blue but a Silver and a Alaska Blue in the interior book? Ray will get you in the right direction! Good luck.! bill

Longbeach412 · Post by **Longbeach412** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:29 pm

........and a line up of all versions:
http://www.vw411-412besitzer.de/dortmun ... _gross.jpg

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:36 pm

Longbeach412 wrote:........and a line up of all versions:
http://www.vw411-412besitzer.de/dortmun ... _gross.jpg

That was a show in Frankfurt I believe. At least thats where the white 412 and gold 412 are from.

Looks like Cyclops has a sunroof.

412le · Post by **412le** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:33 am

Just for information.

The green German car with the sunroof is a 74 412LS 4door sedan painted in Moos metallic which is a original color.
As i remember is the car mounted with some really rare options as ventilation quarter windows, power brakes etc.........

Really nice car.

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puttin the 412 in Neutral

puttin the 412 in Neutral

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