Gas Leak

Daviid · Post by **Daviid** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:49 am

I can't find this line on my car - it's probably completely gone. Does anyone know where the nipples are that the hose is supposed to attach to?

This is a quote that I took off another forum - attributed to Bob Miller I think:

"Many a THING owner has thought that the gas cap was the problem for the gas leak, but in "most" cases it is the fuel vapor recovery line. This line passes under the right wheel well and has a rubber hose that connects the steel line from the body to the steel line on the pan. I have yet to see a THING that didn't have this line damaged, unless it had been replaced recently. 3/4 a tank or more and a left turn and you will smell the petrol leaking out the hose. But don't forget to check the cap as well. The tank is supposed to be "sealed" to make the vapor recovery system work. "

"I have found that the more common source of gas smell in the car was from a broken flex connector in the fuel vapor recovery line. This "hose" connection is located in the right front fender well and it deteriorates and tears with age. It will usually leak after a fill up or after left turns. Give it a try"

Cheers,
David

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:35 pm

David , Are you speaking of an 8mm braided hose leading to the charcoal canister at the rear of the car?I have removed that hose entirely from front to rear when the body was off . It was rotted and decayed but I have never had that problem before or after doing so.
I would let the car sit overnight and get a friend to help you rock it back and forth with the hood up. It may help determine the origin of the leak and gaseous odor. Bob

suntour · Post by **suntour** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:36 pm

When do you smell the gas? Is it during or after a left hand turn or just when the car is sitting still, etc.? Oh and Bob, was your charcoal canister really in the rear of your car? I have never seen that before. It never ceases to fascinate me how different each Thing was setup from VW.

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:11 pm

Justin the charcoal filter on my thing is located over the transaxle on the passengers side. Bob

suntour · Post by **suntour** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:27 pm

Huh? Never seen that before, is that the normal location for a charcoal filter? Mine is bolted to the front quarter panel under the hood next to the gas heater. When Daviid quoted the passage above I had to scratch my head and wonder why there would be a braided gas line under the right wheel. All my fuel old vapor recovery lines where inside the trunk area including the return inlet to the gas tank. Long since rusted away and replaced with a gas tank that came out of (I assume) a much older bug.

Daviid, the reason I asked when you smell the gas it that I have experienced gas leaks from just about every conceivable location on my Thing. Depending on what my car is doing I can track down my gas leaks faster. If it has been sitting around overnight and I smell gas it usually means the bottom of my tank has rusted through again (Three times so far.) If I am driving straight, usually means the rubber hose to the solid line in the pan has come loose again or the solid line has cracked again. (Desperately need to throw that pan away, and put my new one on.) As for turning left, that is a whole different can of worms. Once it was a loose clamp from the filler tube to the tank, another time was a bad seal on the gas cap. Now the filler tube has broken loose from the body and every time I turn left I get the gas smell. I spent forever trying to find that one since I didn?t think the weld could break and never looked there. It wasn?t until a passenger started to complain that every time I turned left they were sprayed with gas droplets. I now have to cram half a tennis ball down the tube to the body connection to keep gas out of that area and I don?t fill up beyond half a tank. So Daviid, take Bob?s advice, get a buddy and go through every situation you can think of to simulate when you smell gas and you should be able to find it. Or do like I do and just get used to the smell and try not to think about those hydrocarbons dissolving your nervous system. Good Luck.

Daviid · Post by **Daviid** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:38 pm

Actually, I don't have a problem. I'm just trying to find out where this line is. I can't find a line anywhere in my right wheelwell. I figure it is long gone. Just trying to locate the nipples that it should be connected to.

Cheers,

David

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:46 am

suntour wrote:Huh? Never seen that before, is that the normal location for a charcoal filter? Mine is bolted to the front quarter panel under the hood next to the gas heater. When Daviid quoted the passage above I had to scratch my head and wonder why there would be a braided gas line under the right wheel.

the quote daviid cites is correct. the black oblong canister inside the trunk is not the charcoal cannister, it is an expansion chamber. it is empty inside and made of metal. the charcoal canister is above the right rear axle and made from black plastic. it has three hoses attached to it, two 12mm braided breathers - one from the fan shroud and one from the air filter housing - and one 4mm braided which is attached to the vapour recovery line, referred to in the quote. it is exactly true that this line is usually pooched. the front end of this line attaches to the expansion chamber with a clear hose coming off the front end of the steel under-frame vapour line. this steel line is attached to the frame with 5 or 6 little clips that rest under the pan bolts, which also are usually missing or rusted beyond recognition. it is attached to the charcoal canister with a short piece of 4mm braided hose. you can make a new one of these steel lines with brake line, it is almost exactly the right size. when i restored my thing i saved the old metal line and bent a new replacement, and also got some of the little clips good used from things unlimited. if memory serves me, the metal line is actually in two pieces with a small piece of braided hose connecting a shorter steel line that starts just under the front corner of the pan and goes across the body, ending just above the master cylinder where it attaches to the clear line.

one thing i would like to add is that there is another line that can and does leak, the overflow return line on the filler neck. there is a junction there with a odd tee, and these hoses, if they are original, can leak or sweat. the short hose is a molded elbow of braid and NLA, but the 14mm braided hose is still available and will work here. there are many connections in this area and they are all prone to leakage or sweating and see a lot of fuel flow past them.

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:19 pm

David at one time(when Things were new) I was employed as line mechanic at Mid Oregon Motors Bend, Or. It was VWofA policy to replace all hoses when any gas leakage occured. That eliminated a lot of tracking down by the mechanic and a lot of return visits by the customer. T-3s were especially prone to leakage. All hoses and lines are kept new and of the same age this way.
I still think its a good policy . When some lines are showing signs of age more are soon to follow. A couple of hours spent replacing hose will in the long run be better than the time spent searching then having to do it again with the next failure to follow. Bob

suntour · Post by **suntour** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:19 pm

Huh?, I never had that on my car. I looked under the rear end and there is no indication that anything was ever there. The undercoating is flat and undisturbed. I always though the canister up front was the recovery. Since it was never hooked up when I got the car I never bothered with it and left it alone. Go figure. I guess I should pay more attention. My bad.

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:31 pm

suntour wrote:Huh?, I never had that on my car. I looked under the rear end and there is no indication that anything was ever there.

there should be a strap, very similar to the one holding the metal canister in the trunk, attached to the sheet metal above the rear axle. this would be on the underside of the lower parcel area, if you will. if you have no rear canister, where do the breather hoses that are connected to air filter and fan shroud go? or are they removed also? perhaps you are running non-stock induction, in which case all bets are off as far as breather hoses are concerned.

suntour · Post by **suntour** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:10 pm

I don?t know. When I first bought my Thing (16 years ago) it came with non stock engine. It had heat exchangers and outlets on the dog house, I can?t remember what the engine numbers where but it was not an AM case. That engine has been gone for 15 years now and I run a 1776 with duel Weber?s etc. so nothing back there is stock. And I can honestly say there is nothing under the parcel tray and no indication there ever was. The previous owner did an amazing hack job on my car, added to that I bought this car when I was 16 and did a few things to it (as all young people are prone to do, not knowing any better) that I regret in my old age. So god only knows what was under there at one time, but it certainly isn?t their any more. I bought this car in Utah and rarely if ever saw another Thing. (I personally think there were only 5 in the entire state at that time and I only saw one other the whole time. He stole my doors.) So my exposure to other Things was non-existent and I often only have my own Thing as a reference. Therefore I find myself prone to misconceptions about stock items or locations due to my lack of a broad reference base.

Mattt · Post by **Mattt** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:39 am

Look right where the main wire loom passes from the passenger compartment to underneath the car just inside of the right rear wheel well. Its not in the wheel well, its more towards the middle of the car. The strap that holds the charcoal canister is right where the wiring passes thru the body. The strap is permanently attached to the body and comes apart on the bottom with one screw, just like the one inside the front hood.

Its purpose is to store fuel vapors until they can be sucked into the air filter and sent thru the engine to be burned. That is why there is the 1/8" line running down the right side of the car that connects the front canister(empty) to the rear charcoal canister. I think the front canister is more of an expansion tank for the fuel tank vapor.

I have looked under many Things skirts and EVERY one Ive looked at had the charcoal canister there. It is part of the smog system that all US 73 & 74 Things had.

Your charcoal canister may be gone, but the strap, or its remnants should be there.

suntour wrote:I don?t know. When I first bought my Thing (16 years ago) it came with non stock engine. It had heat exchangers and outlets on the dog house, I can?t remember what the engine numbers where but it was not an AM case. That engine has been gone for 15 years now and I run a 1776 with duel Weber?s etc. so nothing back there is stock. And I can honestly say there is nothing under the parcel tray and no indication there ever was. The previous owner did an amazing hack job on my car, added to that I bought this car when I was 16 and did a few things to it (as all young people are prone to do, not knowing any better) that I regret in my old age. So god only knows what was under there at one time, but it certainly isn?t their any more. I bought this car in Utah and rarely if ever saw another Thing. (I personally think there were only 5 in the entire state at that time and I only saw one other the whole time. He stole my doors.) So my exposure to other Things was non-existent and I often only have my own Thing as a reference. Therefore I find myself prone to misconceptions about stock items or locations due to my lack of a broad reference base.