Idler Arm Bushings, Part Deux...

[MGVWfan]

Don't sweat it Ray As you see from my "Progress..." post, it's been slow going for me, too.

We need to start a "Herr Doktor von Typ 4 Ray" file with all these posts clabbered into one...

[DeathBus]

do 914's share any of the same parts?

[MGVWfan]

Not front suspension. From what I read, 914's use the same front suspension setup as the 911 (torsion bars, rack-and-pinion steering box, etc.).

[wildthings]

I agree with Ray that a lot of shimmy comes from the wheels, the steel wheels get bent with age, from sitting (as Ray suggest), from too many potholes, and from being overtightened over and over. I finally got rid of my shimmy by having them balanced on a machine where the wheels are bolted up using lug bolts instead of just being centered using the center hole. This way the wheels are preloaded and bent just as they would be when mounted on the car. Another option is to find an on-the-car spin balancer, but there are few of those out there any more, haven't seen one in over a decade.

[vwbill]

Hey Guys, great posts! I just have a stupid question. Why does the steering wheel move from side to side if alot of trouble is the balance and strut mount which I relate to the wheel jumping up or down and I dont see any cupping on the tires? I guess I dont understand the relation of the forces and the parts. I can see the Idler arm and center link causing a slop in the side to side stability. I just see the balance and strut mounts and ball joints causing a hopping when braking but cant see the force acting on it at speed? So why doesnt the side to side movement go away when you let off the gas or forward force? Once again confused, Bill

[raygreenwood]

If the wheel is moving side to side...is it all the time...or just at certain speeds? Bent or spread rims can cause this somwhat. But....bad radius arm bushings, bad strut bushings, bad idler bushings and improper alignment can cause all of this. Why? Because what all of those parts have in common, is that they have rubbber in them. Forward motion causes the wheels to want to spread outward. If any of the bushings are weak...they cause the spread to go too far, altering the alignment. It goes back and forth..because the force...or stresss...is trying to alleviate itself. The wheels "load up"...outward. The stroger bushing side will push back forward and try and unlaod some of its stress. It changes the direction of the wheel just slightly...and forces its stress to the bushing on the other side. If you have a minorly bent wheel...it adds to this concoction of movement. This destroys wheel bearings, tie od ends and ball joints. The actual amount alignment may be off...will not be a enough many times to show tire wear at all.....except after long periods. But...all of this combined...with the very highe leverage of the long suspension arms...makes the movement at the wheel, very large.
Bad ball joints can add to all of this also. It is my recommendation....since parts are so hard to get....to not replace anything....until you have every last part to rebuild the front end.
Struts, Strut bushings, ball joints, center link, tie-rod ends, radius arm bushings, radius arm centering grommets, control arm bushings, wheel bearings, steering damper, straight rims. Anything less...and the extreme length of the suspension arms ....will destroy any part that is attached to a bad part. Ray

[vwbill]

Thanks Ray, for all the great info! I guess on my old one I must have had better tires and rims going since I never had any handling problems with her! She always seemed to handle anything I would do to her from doing a u-turn at 45 in a full on ebrake spin turn to the 360 railroad mishap in rain! I always felt like she was a race car,lol!! Maybe the mechanic I got her from had her tight in the frontend and I always had the alignment chk and balanced done. The only problem I ever had with the car was the brake system? bill

[raygreenwood]

VWbill.....The thing you have to remember about these cars....is that they are getting older by the minute. This is the absolute truth. A brand new 412...with "0" miles on it...sitting in a garage all its life...would need every scrap of its suspension bushings replaced, before being drivable.
All of the parts are generally black rubber or Buna-n, synthetic. Either way...age alone...craps them out, even without milage.
My very first car was a 411 4 door. It was a 1972. It had 55k miles on it when I got it in 1979. I never had any problems with the suspension...but it was YOUNG. My next one was even better cared for...and only had 65K on it. I got it in 1985.....but it had nothing but triuble. The bushings just crumbled by that time. Ray

[raygreenwood]

VWbill.....The thing you have to remember about these cars....is that they are getting older by the minute. This is the absolute truth. A brand new 412...with "0" miles on it...sitting in a garage all its life...would need every scrap of its suspension bushings replaced, before being drivable.
All of the parts are generally black rubber or Buna-n, synthetic. Either way...age alone...craps them out, even without milage.
My very first car was a 411 4 door. It was a 1972. It had 55k miles on it when I got it in 1979. I never had any problems with the suspension...but it was YOUNG. My next one was even better cared for...and only had 65K on it. I got it in 1985.....but it had nothing but triuble. The bushings just crumbled by that time. Ray

[vwbill]

True point!! I forget the gap between then and now has wasted the parts away that keep metal from metal! Man, it's just like you always say" Do it all the first time"!! Have to remember to remake and replace all rubber parts! It's not a funny thing having a unsafe ride!! I'm not driving her till I go back and do all the parts and then to the alignment shop!
bill

[DeathBus]

I am lucky my White' cars bushings and suspension rubber is imaculate, 43k! 2 door on the other hand might need some work.

[vwbill]

Man think of the savings in time and parts having that stuff goood!!! Do you think she had already been gone over? bill

[DeathBus]

Man think of the savings in time and parts having that stuff goood!!! Do you think she had already been gone over? bill

Yeah I think so, the previous owner was into susoension and handleing so I think so, he just didnt understand heat and air!