Anyone seen these before?

[vwbill]

Anyone seen these before? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 86796&rd=1

shipping would be a few bucks? Would they ever work on a t4? bill

[DeathBus]

Anyone seen these before? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 86796&rd=1

shipping would be a few bucks? Would they ever work on a t4? bill

yes, yes, yes.

[ubercrap]

These wheels aren't that uncommon in the U.S., they show up on thesamba.com sometimes. What makes these look different is that they are all silver, and I think originally some of the center section was black.

[ecdez]

Shipping would kill you. You should be able to find some stateside for about the same.

[raygreenwood]

Also, they are 4.5" wide. If you are going through the trouble to change wheels...put the 5.5 or 6" wheels on . This is a huge, HUGE...handling improvement on the 411/412. This lowers the car considerably when using 205-60/15 or 205-55/15. Just my opinion...but the looks of any wheel on the planet are worthless...if they require you to have to the same skinny tire, and top heavy handling..... the car was subjected to by the factory. Ray

[vwbill]

Great Points Ray! So when looking at handling on the 411/412 the wider the better. What about the height of the wheel and the new low profile tires? Thanks again for your thought! Bill
p.s. Do you think the chrome remake you can buy(65$) would be better then having the originals sent out and cleaned and chromed since they could be of a not to straight form?s

[ubercrap]

Also, they are 4.5" wide. If you are going through the trouble to change wheels...put the 5.5 or 6" wheels on . This is a huge, HUGE...handling improvement on the 411/412. This lowers the car considerably when using 205-60/15 or 205-55/15. Just my opinion...but the looks of any wheel on the planet are worthless...if they require you to have to the same skinny tire, and top heavy handling..... the car was subjected to by the factory. Ray

Exactly what I was thinking. 4.5" wide wheels with 165 tires is way too puny for modern day driving standards in my opinion. I used to have a '96 base model Saturn that came with 14 x 4.5" wheels and 175/70 14 tires from the factory. The power and suspension tuning of this relatively lightweight and underpowered economy car often and easily overcame the limits of the puny stock tires. Since it was a front-drive car, it usually would just want to understeer, but I got it to do some strange gyrations a few times that felt like it wanted to swap ends. Braking, especially in the wet, was terrible. Later, I put 17X7" wheels on it with 205/40 tires on it (back in '99 remember, this was still expensive and damn cool at that point, not every ricer or average Joe had 17's on their Neon quite yet) , and basically transformed it into a different car. I also upgraded the braking by switching to a rear disc setup. Sure, it rode like an oxcart on cobblestone over even the smoothest surfaces, but turn-in, handling precision, and grip were in a whole other world. In a rear-engine, rear-drive car, I imagine the handling would become treacherous with puny tires if one were to drive in a "spirited" manner. Besides, I think it looks ridiculous, especially to my "young" eye. I think this is one area that VW really screwed up on, sharing the wheel style and size with the Beetle when the 411/412 was supposed to be a luxury car and was outrageously expensive at the time. Whether manufacturers have learned their lesson, or consumers have become more savvy, or both, car companies put quite a bit of money and design time into spiffy alloy wheels or even stylish wheel covers, as well as sensitivity to the fitment in the wheel opening (Audi being especially awesome in this regard as of late) because they know that the right wheels can MAKE or break the whole cohesive design package of a vehicle.

[raygreenwood]

The 5.5 wheels....I have those basic 356 style stock chromies on mine...(I hate chrome...but they look nice)....are a perfect fit. The stock tire was ....165/75-15 if I am not mistaken (please correct me if I'm wrong). Without compression from wight when installed, that gives a side wall height of 123.75mm on each side of the rim...so a total of 247.5mm. . A 205/60-15 gives a sidewall height of 246mm. So the overall height is the same...so the speedo stays the same. But....that moves the whole wheel outwards towards the fender about 1/2", filling the gap better. Its not an up and down fender gap issue per-se, with the 411/412 (of course after you lower the front ned most of an inch to get rid of that nose high thing)....but that skinny tire leaves a lot more gap around it. Also, the side wall height and flex rate versus the visually wider tire make it look lower. The handling difference speaks for itself. You have an extra 40mm of actual tread width on the pavement. Ray

[DeathBus]

so we need

5.5's all the way around

What tire size on the front (to get rid of the front high thing)

What tire size on the rear

especially if we want that "raked" look

[raygreenwood]

Tire size will not get rid of the front high thing. That has to be done when installing new struts. The strut rod governs the extension height...nothing else does. Same size tires all the way around. Anything else is useless for rotation and wear, and does nothing for handling. That raked look....sloped more toward the front end is also not uselful. It will give you perhaps 1* more of static castor by default...but nothing else , other than a weight distribution problem upon braking.
If you look carefully...most modern cars that do have that raked look...again, it is just a look. The front and rear suspension are actually level relative to each other . It is just an illusion done by body installation angle.

But, the way the 411/412 is shaped...it has a bit of illusion itself. Especially the 412. When you put on the larger tires and level the front to rear, it appears to be down about 2" in the front. But if you measure the chassis edge at the bottom ...its dead level front to rear....as it should be.

One thing o note, with the stiffer gas struts and shocks,....an forgot to mention this...you can go to a 205/55-15. Its about 10mm lower all the way around than the 205/60. But that little extra stiffness with the gas shocks...can get pretty harsh. Ray

[DeathBus]

soooooooooooo

if I get 5.5 rims, whats the lowest profile tire I can run (I am horrible when it comes to suspension and what wheels go with what, my understanding lays in engines so far)

[ubercrap]

Well, they make as low as a 195/45 15" tire, maybe smaller, but I don't see any reason to go below Ray's suggestion of a 205/55 15" tire and 205/60 15" will be cheaper I bet. Heck, if you want a big 'n little combo, go for it though, it's your car.

My GTI has an H&R cupkit suspension on it, lowered about 2" front, 1" rear (has the extra spacers installed rear). It looks soooo damn cool with the front raked like that, but it hurts ultimate handling. Still worth it to me on that car. Unfortunately, most "middle-era" VW's don't have a lot of room under the fender wells.

Can't...resist...raked...stance...

[tuna]

Talking about tires..... remember that when changing tires that if you install a smaller diameter tire, like a 205/55R15, it will increase the speedo reading on the front, and increase your engine speed at any given road speed if installed on the rear.

The stock tires are any where from 25" to 25.5" in diameter. A 205/55R15 is 23.8" or roughly the same height as a 135R15 used on Cal Bugs. A 195/65R15 is 25.0", so it'd be a better choice, in my opinion. The 205/65R15 is 25.5", so it would be the high choice.

Tuna

[raygreenwood]

Yep...I agree. 205/60-15's are what I run on mine. The other thing you have to remember...is that the tires....and most especially the sidewalls...are in fact "springs" . They have flex built into them. That is taken into acount when designing the supension. This is also a problem with the 411/412. The dampers were way too soft. Thats because the original tires has very high flexy sidewalls. They took up a lot of slack that the struts and shocks did not have to. Even when keeping the stock tire size....later model tires caused problems...as they were stiffer just cause they were being built better.
By my actual experience, with KYB gas-just high pressures on the rear, and the audi KYB GR-2 low pressure on front...or even the stock KYB oiul struts...the 205/55-15 was harsh. The side walls have too little flex for the tight gas shocks...and they transfer a whole lot of jolts and vibration. They wear things out. Ray