Ray, can I use early Golf struts?

[ubercrap]

Well, since I'm parting out the '85 Golf, I'd like to use the struts to experiment with your hybrid strut idea ( WCVW strut body slipped into cut off lower 412 section). Before I make the car immobile by removing the struts, these have the same O.D. as Rabbit (A1) struts, right?

[raygreenwood]

They should. Here is something to check first. Take a caliper and check the outside OD of the strut tube on the golf. Write that down. Now.....if you have a spare strut tube laying arund for the 411/412...measure the ID of it. The golf strut should be more than about .008"-.010" larger. If so....thats a good candidate. I have collected a few pairs, because once the dust settles here...I will start making sets.

I have layed out a design that requires cutting off the spring seat and the steering knuckle mounting flange....carefully...from the golf strut with a cut-off wheel. Then grind it smooth. Then with a strip of 230 grit shop roll, sand off all of the paint on the Golf strut. Then take it down some more. You need to get the Golf tube to just the inside size. No interferance fit. Leave the ball joint lug on the bottom....you will need that. The difference in length is about 4-6" if I recall.

Then take the 411/412 tube to the machine shop.....or if you aree handy with a drill and have a soft jawed vise.....clamp the 412 tube into the vice by the bottom flange. Drill a hole in the very bottom dome....dead center. It should be large enough to take like a 1/2" threaded rod.

On the Golf strut, in the ball joint mounting socket on the bottom, you need to install....and make sure its dead centered a grade 10.5 (grade 8 approx) rod of all thread. I think that ball joint clamp takes about a 12mm rod. Then tack weld it...make sure its perfectly straight....weld it.

Then....Take a very fine hack saw...or a cut-off wheel with a very steady hand....and make 3 slots vertically across the threads of the top cap thread area on the 412 strut...spaced 120 degrees apart. Yes...you are making this top area into a locking chuck. Then debur everything.

Now....having pre-measured so you know how far to slide the golf tube in so that the strut rod is the perfect length......slide the golf tube in. Its threaded rod will protrude from out of the hole you drill in the 411/412 strut. Mark the exact point where it exits. Then remove the golf tube. Cut the rod off about 2" from the point where marked. This....will allow you two further inches of lowering adjustment....though I do not recommend that you ever lower that far.

Now.....get some grade 8 or 10.5 threaded hex tube nut stock....of the same size as the rod you welded onto the Gold strut. Cut it length...to allow the necessary range for the gold strut threaded rod to thread into it. So it should be at least 2and 3/4" long. You need to allow enough length to weld it into the bottom of the 412 stut tube....and have at least 3/4" of the threaded rod to stay threaded into it when the gold tube is pulled out to maximum...but should have 2" of spare length in case you ever find the need to thread in all the way.
Screw it onto the thread of the gold strut...slide the assembly in....make sure the tube nut protrudes from the bottom of the 412 nut....acrew the tube nut in or out until the bottom edge is flush on the outside of the 412 strut and weld it. Then grind it smooth...ad chase the threads.

Last part. Take the old 412 strut cap that screws onto the top. Either weld a fat bead of weld around the top flange where your wrench/pin spanner normally fits into the two notches that allow you to tighten it down....or weld a very large diameter flat waher to the top. This is for strength. Then take those down to the machine shop.....and have the center machine out....but do not disturb the threads. You want a collar with threads on the inside and the flange where you can apply a wrench or spanner. Then carefully clearance and deburr....and slip it down over th golf strut tube before applying its top locking cap, and screw it down over the 412 tube threads. Remember...you slotted those. This will cinch them together..further locking against the Golf strut body....plus...you have the welded on all thread..threaded into the tube nut at the bottom. This thing is locked together beutifully now. Ang you can use the audi struts.

If memory serves, to use the top late model assymmetrcial strut bearing from the 412 on those that did not have it (that would be the 411 and early 412)...you need to drill two new holes and clearance the hole where the bushing protrudes. I am working a drill guide/jig that mounts to the original 3 strut bearing holes and allows using a hole saw and a hand drill to cleanly cut the required clearance. If I get it done...I could send i out with the kits to be returned when you are done. Ray

[ubercrap]

Good ideas. On Golf front suspension, unfortunately, the ball joint stud clamp is on the steering knuckle, not the strut. I haven't owned an A1 chassis car, so I don't know as much about those, are they set up that way? It wouldn't necessarily preclude that setup, as one would just have to attach the threaded rod to the bottom of the Golf strut body another way. Getting it perfectly straight might be a challenge.

[raygreenwood]

Dang..thats right. I was looking at a rabbit strut I think...but that is not a problem. Simply also...drill a hole dead center in the dome in the bottom of the Golf strut. Then weld in the all thread. All of this makes your strut externally adjustable. Simply unlock the 412 strut tube cap...and turn the golf strut body up or down to the desired height....then clamp it. I am also thinking of sevising an external tube clamp hasp to go onto the golf tube...to lock it to the 412 tube...so in case your cinch nut comes loose...it will not turn out of the 412 strut body. Ray

[DeathBus]

A little off subject but close to why Uber wants to do this, You guys realize the 412's came with Ghia Rims and not Beetle rims. The offset on ghia 4 lug rims is not as deep as a Beetle 4 lug rim. Just thought I'd throw that in........, for what it may or may not be worth.

[ubercrap]

I didn't know that! So, when you say deeper, which direction are you talking about? Do you mean the Ghia/412 rims have more positive offset or am I turned around?

[DeathBus]

I am new to the tire/rim thing so here is how it is.

Look at 412/Ghia Rims, with the rim mounted look at the lugs and the "circle" that goes around all the lugs, the lugs poke out farther than the "circle"

Look at Beetle rims the same lug circle deal, the lugs set deeper. so the tire is closer to the fender than the spring.

My 2 door has a ghia/412 rim on the left rear and a beetle rim on the right rear, same tire sizes same rim sizes and the tire on the right rear is closer to the fender than the left rear.

This was explained to me by a friend, the welder guy who did my tank, he has been messing with Beetles for years.

[raygreenwood]

This stur modification would be important if you were going to lower the car, as would the rim that sits farther from teh fender, but..what is more critical on tire sizing on teh 411/412 than anything, is the relationship to the inner fenderwell. It is tighter there than the outside. With 5.5 rims and 205-60/15's...you can lower the front end about 1.75 inches without any problems. Though....I warn you guys not to lower the front end any further than necessary to get teh front level with the rear. Thats just under an inch. Trust me...you have no idea how low the 412 looks ...and is already, once you get the front end level. There is not much road clearance under these cars.

Though this strut mod is made for adjustability, that is mainly so everyone can get the precise tuning they need to get the car level and straight, front to back and side to side. Also, this mod primarily allows you to use superbly valved and much stiffer than stock struts...that are readily available. It has no change on the wheel width track or offset, as those are set by the control arms and ball joints. Ray