THE DREADED BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER.

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:27 pm

2 door - bad brake master cylinder.

Took it apart

Took apart an old SUper Master...

The places for the rubbers are identical measurements as are the rubbers, COuld I use a Beetle MAster kit if I can find one????

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:23 pm

Quoted from Ray:

"Also...you can use the SEALS and flap valves ONLY...from the type 3 to rebuild the type 4 cylinder....but DO NOT swap the pistons. They have different lengts than the type 4's."

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:24 pm

I thought I had seen that somewhere. Just bought one off EGAY my pistons look ok, but I am going to media blast them to make sure.

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:28 pm

Got any bids on that power master on EGAY yet?

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:33 pm

Be careful. See....the super beetle cylinder (especially the German ATE unit), seems to have the same spacing between piston areas ...right? But look again. Are the flanges ALL the same thickness....and does the pin on the bottom piston allow the same stroke length....exactly? Also, is the primary/secondary lock screw that protrudes from the side of the cylider....the exact distance from both the bottom of the cylinder and top of teh cylinder...AND...does it hold siad pistons...in the exact location in respect to the fluid replenishment ports in the top of the cylinder? If all of these things are not...EXACT.....it may work...and can maybe be modifed....but will be absolute...HELL. I have been there.

Other than corrosion on the faces of the compensating port flanges of the pistons ...say under the brass flap valves...there is little that ever goes wrong with the old pistons. Just clean them up, swap springs, seals and flap valves....and install them.

Yes...it would be worth it to stainless sleeve one of these babies...as it would last forever. The only thing that kills the cylinder is rust pits in the walls. If they can be ...say nickle plated...which I'm sure they can, they can be rebuilt easily. Or....maybe its time to swap to a bus cylinder and fab up the pushrods. Ray

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:53 pm

DeathBus wrote:Got any bids on that power master on EGAY yet?

Not yet, somebody just e-mailed me, wants a discount for buying both...By the way, in case your were wondering, my ebay pseudonym is the name of the mayor on "The Simpsons."

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:59 pm

raygreenwood wrote:Be careful. See....the super beetle cylinder (especially the German ATE unit), seems to have the same spacing between piston areas ...right? But look again. Are the flanges ALL the same thickness....and does the pin on the bottom piston allow the same stroke length....exactly? Also, is the primary/secondary lock screw that protrudes from the side of the cylider....the exact distance from both the bottom of the cylinder and top of teh cylinder...AND...does it hold siad pistons...in the exact location in respect to the fluid replenishment ports in the top of the cylinder? If all of these things are not...EXACT.....it may work...and can maybe be modifed....but will be absolute...HELL. I have been there.

Other than corrosion on the faces of the compensating port flanges of the pistons ...say under the brass flap valves...there is little that ever goes wrong with the old pistons. Just clean them up, swap springs, seals and flap valves....and install them.

Yes...it would be worth it to stainless sleeve one of these babies...as it would last forever. The only thing that kills the cylinder is rust pits in the walls. If they can be ...say nickle plated...which I'm sure they can, they can be rebuilt easily. Or....maybe its time to swap to a bus cylinder and fab up the pushrods. Ray

my pistons look ok, so I am going to take this Super kit I bought, swap all the stuff over and be done with it. NOW THW CLUTCH master is another story... Anybody got any spare rebuild kits?

Yeah Uber I caught that name when I saw the listing.

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:11 pm

"Anybody got any spare rebuild kits"

I think so, let me take a look tonight. I think the last thread was unresolved whether the parts offered by the place on ebay were actually the correct ones. I have parts I got from VWbill, I will try to compare them, hell, maybe I'll get ambitious and tear one of mine down...

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:44 pm

ubercrap wrote:"Anybody got any spare rebuild kits"

I think so, let me take a look tonight. I think the last thread was unresolved whether the parts offered by the place on ebay were actually the correct ones. I have parts I got from VWbill, I will try to compare them, hell, maybe I'll get ambitious and tear one of mine down...

Cool, I think I might have one of those laying around, but ray said it was for a 1 year only master clutch.

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:22 pm

Take a look, I bet they are correct, the slave cylinders are the ones that were different for '69, I believe that all the master cylinders were the same.

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:30 pm

Hell I cant remember what I bought... lol

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:10 pm

I didn't get around to looking at them tonight, I was tearing the struts out of the '73. Sometime here I'll have a closer look at the rebuild kits I've got.

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:51 am

I'll try and find mine today, I'll have some shop time today anyway, since its suppossed to storm all day.

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:24 am

ubercrap wrote:I didn't get around to looking at them tonight, I was tearing the struts out of the '73. Sometime here I'll have a closer look at the rebuild kits I've got.

I have a clutch slave kit, but no master kits,

Help me Uber One Kenobi, Your my only hope.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:56 pm

The seals , springs and stroke length of the vanagon sylinder are the same. Bear in mind, that as long as the seats for the cups are clean...and the seats for the brass flap valves are clean...it make no difference the condition of the pistons. They....have nothing to do with sealing the cylinder. They do not even touch the walls. Measure them. They are like .003-.005" smaller than the cylinder

. I have....even used a vanagon cylinder piston with good results...but if your clutch master is FAG....use the FAG bus cylinder guts. You will have to trim a bit off the pin on the bottom that the spring fits over. Thats the stroke limiter spring.
Also...take a vanagon cylinder....see the two mounting screw holes cast into it? Get a 6" long piece of 1" angle iron from Homer Depot....drill two mounting 6mm holes in the angle iron and bolt the cylinder to it. Measure....then drill two 10mm holes...and it bolts right up. Just check to make sure the residual pressure valve bolts on. I can't remember if it does or not. That cylinder will power your clutch perfectly. Ray