Alternator removal.

[wallacehartley]

I dont trust my manual's procedure for removing alternator from my 411 wagon. It says I must remove the oil filter, which is on the opposite side of the motor???

And a multitude of plates and covers as well as the main fan/pulley??
Is that correct?

Anyone done this job without removing the engine?

There is very little output from the alternator and I reckon it must be time for overhaul -new brushes and bearings.

Any advice?
Geoff.

[albert]

no ,wallace , for me i found good way 2hrs ,rem.and inst. remove your right side weel (passenger)and with good (make sécure ) jack you car and remove your heather box and air cover plate and belt weell and 2 screws it is hard for the hand but you save time ,, go to look ,,, this solution ( ps same way for starter excep heather box)

[raygreenwood]

There are numerous ways. Alberts is about right. If I recall...I have done it with removeing the heater box as well. But...its tight and will depend on what muffler you have and wether it can squeeze around.
Remove the belt, the top locking bolt that is found under the oblong plastic plug, and the axis bolt that it pivots on.
You should have already disconnected the battery. Then, remove the top right hand muffler nut because it holds onto a stanchion of the alternator.
Remove teh single screw that hold down the tin duct to the heater blower , from the heater box. Remove the rubber coling boot from the alternator. Its best to order a new one from west cost metrc. It is critical for this alternator. Disconnec t the 3 wires by the voltage regulator....gray, black, blue....and the plug ffrom the reg....and the red wi9re from the loom back by the reg.....push the plug back through the tin....and the alternator should squeeze out through the side. Ray

[DeathBus]

There are numerous ways. Alberts is about right. If I recall...I have done it with removeing the heater box as well. But...its tight and will depend on what muffler you have and wether it can squeeze around.
Remove the belt, the top locking bolt that is found under the oblong plastic plug, and the axis bolt that it pivots on.
You should have already disconnected the battery. Then, remove the top right hand muffler nut because it holds onto a stanchion of the alternator.
Remove teh single screw that hold down the tin duct to the heater blower , from the heater box. Remove the rubber coling boot from the alternator. Its best to order a new one from west cost metrc. It is critical for this alternator. Disconnec t the 3 wires by the voltage regulator....gray, black, blue....and the plug ffrom the reg....and the red wi9re from the loom back by the reg.....push the plug back through the tin....and the alternator should squeeze out through the side. Ray

This is exactly how I do it, once you have done it, its not that difficult.

[albert]

hy, dethbus , i send yestherday at mg 5 page with photo for the procédure for the istalation ,ask at mg ,,

[wallacehartley]

Thanks guys - proof yet again that this place is a valuable resource if you are tinkering with these cars.

I got the alternator out - a bit of a jiggle and a cussword or two, but it just took a bit of time is all.

Managed to do it without removing the muffler, which is really just a very corroded ultra-thin walled tube of nothing held together with strips of mosquito screen held together with bits of chicken mesh held together with multiple turns of baling wire. I figured pretty quickly that it would be best to leave the thing untouched as removing it would render it nothing less than a pile of rusty mozzie screen and wire. I will replace the muffler soon, just not right now.

That done, the pulley nut came off without too much hassle but then removing the pulley became a challenge. My G-4 two-legged puller seemed to be making progress, but then I noticed that it was actually simply deforming the pulley flanges and that the apparent progress was illusory.
So off to father-in-laws gearbox workshop with the alternator to try a three legged puller approach, but this made no impression on 32 years of the pulley sitting on the shaft.
So into the press it went. By now, the pulley was looking a little worse for wear around the edges of the flanges, so I promptly ordained it a sacrificial pulley and distorted it completely in the pressing out process.
Eventually with about 7 tons on the press gauge, it came free.

The pulley is done for, but I reckon to use a bus pulley that I will have to find at a junkyard.

So the alternator is busy getting itself stripped and cleaned, and I am then of to the junkyards to scrounge up a pulley.
Quite a lot of mud and sand came out of the alternator in the above processes, and the rubber boot for the cooling air was not properly seated on the non-alternator end, but then I did mention in one of my previous posts somewhere that der wagenschmitt that schmitted on this car for the past 15 years or so was German only in name.

I also now know where all the oil is coming from in the back of the car - yes, the rubber interconnect for the oil filler had no clamps or clips on at all, is perished and the same rubber interconnect for the dipstick is broken as well.

This does not make me feel happy about the crap that may be in the oil..............

Oh well, I will let you know how this ends up - I have visions of a smaller diameter pulley and lengths of ordinary plastic pipe finishing the job.

Thanks for the help, gents, and thanks for the pics Albert - I recieved them ok.

[MGVWfan]

One thing I had to repair when I did the alternator on my '73 412 Variant last year (still on the shelf waiting to be re-installed!) was remove the perished cambric tubing over the leads going to the diodes, and over the stator leads. I was afraid I'd get shorting once the thing was back on the road, given the tight spaces that wiring lives in. I replaced them all with some silicone varnished fiberglass cambric that happened to be in my bench stock from my days in the USAF...any electric motor engineering firm should have something useable, and you only need 1-2 feet total. Also, watch the brush box, if you break it, a replacement is about US$80, if you can find one.

BTW, my pulley came off without a puller, just some judicious tapping and prising, and a bit of jiggling with a mole wrench...hmmm.

[DeathBus]

Had a friend with a 72 bus who's alternator light kept glowing AFTER he put a new alternator in from a local FLAPS. Come to find out when the minimum wage worker who "rebuilt" the alternator put it together, he used TO LONG OG MOUNTING POSTS for the diodes, wound up touching the back plate, no covers on the studs either.

[raygreenwood]

MGVWFAN....you have finally given yourself away.....hmmmm...MG's.....prising?....mole wrench? ..omigod....your a BRIT!..... You could whack me with a "spanner"! Hee hee...just having fun! Ray

[DeathBus]

MGVWFAN....you have finally given yourself away.....hmmmm...MG's.....prising?....mole wrench? ..omigod....your a BRIT!..... You could whack me with a "spanner"! Hee hee...just having fun! Ray

I had my suspicions but didnt want to "OUT HIM" in public, thanks for doing that for me Ray!

[raygreenwood]

MGVWfan...you know we are joking...right? You are one of the gang....even if you don't speak proper Eng...er..American Ray

[MGVWfan]

Well, I guess years of reading Haynes manuals from the Old Country, and working on Anglias and MGs will do that to ya. Just promise not to use the old blowlamp on me

My first toy was an SU fuel pump from a Singer Roadster...hours of fun and amusement!

[raygreenwood]

You notice that none of us are confused by your terminology? Thats because .....other than German manuals....all of the good manuals worth anything at all, were written in English. If we work on European cars...we learn the "proper" terms from the proper English books.

But we do have to be careful in mixed company over here. If I mentioed in passing that I was having problems removing my gudgeon pin.....I would get whacked for passing unwanted, sexually explicit , personnal information.....

Don't worry...we have enough regional colloquialisms here...to beat each other up worse than you! Take Deathbus for instance.....an "crass" person might say....Alabama?...Hmmm....arn't all of the good cars there up on blocks?.... But I wouldn't say that....because my best car is up on blocks! Ray

[DeathBus]

You notice that none of us are confused by your terminology? Thats because .....other than German manuals....all of the good manuals worth anything at all, were written in English. If we work on European cars...we learn the "proper" terms from the proper English books.

But we do have to be careful in mixed company over here. If I mentioed in passing that I was having problems removing my gudgeon pin.....I would get whacked for passing unwanted, sexually explicit , personnal information.....

Don't worry...we have enough regional colloquialisms here...to beat each other up worse than you! Take Deathbus for instance.....an "crass" person might say....Alabama?...Hmmm....arn't all of the good cars there up on blocks?.... But I wouldn't say that....because my best car is up on blocks! Ray

LMAO Ray is right... You ever hear Greek spoken with a southern US accent? QUITE hilarious!

Anyway as of right now I have 1 car up on jack stands and one completely dissassembled!

Just do the best with your spanners and we will all get along just fine!

[MGVWfan]

Why yes, I have...Greek with a North Louisiana redneck accent, that is. And Italian, and Yiddish, and Hebrew. And French. Quite a little UN where I grew up. Sh'lom, y'all!

OK Ray, just keep your bootlid closed, and your bonnet earthed, and whatever you do, don't light that blowlamp around the accumulator! You'll blow the dynamo through the wing!