doghouse engine tin picture

mpdykeman · Post by **mpdykeman** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:41 am

Does anybody know a link to a picture that shows and identifies *all* the tin components in a type 1 motor (doghouse)? My tin was in shreads (what was there when I bought it) and my official manual is only through 69, but I am converting to doghouse.

Thanx.

Post by **Marc** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:01 pm

There's an exploded-view drawing here (of both singleport & dualport):
http://www.1800vw.bizhosting.com/images/CoolingFans.jpg
Note that part #39 is only used on early dualports which had a single hole in each end of #41. If you have the later "four-hole" #41 you can connect it directly to the flap assemblies (#23 & #36) just as you did on your singleport.
You should also have P/Ns 11 & 8 and rubber seals 5, 22, & 23 shown here:
http://www.1800vw.bizhosting.com/images/MotorTin.jpg
If piece #19 doesn't have the "window" in it for #8 to exit through you can cut one yourself that'll work well enough (the stock rubber seals won't fit right but you can seal the gaps with RTV once everything's assembled).
You can trim singleport overcylinder tins out to resemble dualports (#3) but they'll lack a fairly important internal deflector between the cylinders so it's not recommended.
Non-FI doghouse shrouds leave a sizeable gap around the bottom of the cooler where air can escape - you'll need the "Hoover bit" (which is often missing) too: http://www.type2.com/rvanness/sealfram.htm

mpdykeman · Post by **mpdykeman** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:24 pm

Thank you for the information. CIP1 has VW OEM doghouse replacement tin (a little extra cost, but they say it is not your typical after market trash), so I have been able to order, 22, 8, 11, 30, 50 and 51 (on MotorTin.jpg). Also 3 (for each side). I picked up flap assemblies (23, 36, 39 and 41 on coolingfan.jpg) from BFY. I hunted down a thermostat, mounting bracket and linkage on Samba. I picked up an original doghouse fan shroud in good shape at a local VW club swapmeet for $10. I'm hoping the fella from Samba also has an original 39mm cooling fan for it...

A couple more questions:

It appears there are also susposed to be "deflector plates" that sit on either side of the pulley tin at rear of motor and attach to the upper cylinder tins. I think this would be 24 on the MotorTin.jpg, but I cant say for sure. Is this correct? If so, they dont appear to be available new from anywhere...

Are the seals (5,22,23) available from anywhere new?

Finally, I hate to sound clueless, but what is RTV?

Thanx.

ottobahn · Post by **ottobahn** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:18 pm

RTV is white silicon glue in a tube,there is also a sealant called "The right stuff",Kragen carries it,it works grat for sealing up gaps around tin.

sagaboy · Post by **sagaboy** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:11 am

I have used RTV "blue" to seal cool air leak between the tins and engine block without any sign of the silicon degrading over the past 18 months now. I have also put a “glob” of the “standard” onto the muffler and it has also not shown any sign of degrading.

Post by **Marc** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:36 am

For a stock DP application the left rear deflector plate would have no hole in it and the right one would be the "double cutaway" style (notched out for both a large warm air pickup elbow and a road draft tube with a wiggle in it at the bottom). This setup debuted on the `68 singleport, and I've seen piles of them at swap meets, usually for no more than $5 each.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=191421

Room Temperature Vulcanizing.

RoWaMe · Post by **RoWaMe** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:54 am

Good catch on that doghouse shroud for $10! I recommend you chase all the threads in the fan as well as the cylinder tins for the sheetmetal screws; they all use the same size off top of my head, M6x1.0. Find such a tap at Sears. One of the most common sizes on a VW (mainly on engine). It's drudgery work but used tins often have chewed-up threads that you don't want to perpetuate.

Do you have the right oil cooler, the oil cooler adapter as well as the rubber seals for your conversion? The above links ("1800...") has that info too.

Another factor in a cooler-running engine after a doghouse conversion is the type of decklid you have. If you have a Beetle, the doghouse fan needed more air intake volume than provided by the row of louvers under the rear window (and the solid decklid thru '69) so that you should install a 2- or 4-row decklid from '70 on (they all interchange, standard Beetle and Supers). If you have a pre '68 Beetle, there are other alternatives...

Same applies with Ghia; a different "rain guard" inside the decklid started around '71 when the doghouse shroud was intro'd to allow lots more air to the engine. That decklid will also bolt onto earlier Ghias.

mpdykeman · Post by **mpdykeman** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:36 pm

I recommend you chase all the threads in the fan as well as the cylinder tins for the sheetmetal screws

Yes, I have been doing that on eveything since I started reassembly.

Do you have the right oil cooler

I plan on purchasing a new correct oil cooler and offset. I believe the seals will come in a gasket set and I can purchase additional for between he offset and the cooler.

Another factor in a cooler-running engine after a doghouse conversion is the type of decklid you have.

This is something I had not considered. Unfortunate since I have only recently completed the body paint (done by someone else) and reassembly. Is this something that is an absolute necessity? I guess what I am asking is, if I did not take this step, would it still be better then non-doghouse but just not as good as with the loovers--or would it be fundimentally dangerous to my engine? I will not be hot-dogging this car at all I will be building the motor round-town driving and the (very) occasional 100 mile trip.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:03 pm

Why the hell would anyone want to use a doghouse on their bug engine? I would be afraid of it catching fire. Does that include your dog also? You guys are weird.

John N · Post by **John N** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:59 pm

mpdykeman wrote:
Another factor in a cooler-running engine after a doghouse conversion is the type of decklid you have.
This is something I had not considered. Unfortunate since I have only recently completed the body paint (done by someone else) and reassembly. Is this something that is an absolute necessity? I guess what I am asking is, if I did not take this step, would it still be better then non-doghouse but just not as good as with the louvers--or would it be fundimentally dangerous to my engine? I will not be hot-dogging this car at all I will be building the motor round-town driving and the (very) occasional 100 mile trip.

I tried this combination (Doghouse fan and solid decklid) on my 68, and in the Texas summer, it did run hotter than I would have liked. I considered buying a 68 'vert decklid, but opted for the nickel & dime solution. I stuck a tennis ball onto the decklid latch. Bang! 10 degree drop in oil temps. YMMV.

Max Welton · Post by **Max Welton** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:08 pm

Here's one I haven't tried myself. An air scoop under the car feeding the engine room.

http://www.cal-look.com/tech/keepingcool.shtml

Max

mpdykeman · Post by **mpdykeman** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:19 pm

John, do you know what those oil tempretures were? I wonder how your temperature compared to a pre-doghouse setup? Also, what were the charistics of your motor--stock or built? A 10 degree drop does seem considerable to me, but I really have no understanding yet of what is normal and what isn't.

My motor will use 90.5 pistons, but just about everything else about it will be stock--Single pic 34 carb, 69mm crank, stock cam. I will be installing an external oil filter (either full-flow or cover plate style). I dont see my driving exceeding 4500-5000 rpms--just not my style.

I was thinking that possibly I could cut a hole behind the license plate for extra ventalation (I think I read something like that in a post) and use a piece of screen to keep critters out--seems like it might be effective--ok, maby a little cheesy.

Putting a hole in the front brest plate seems kookie. He says it kept the motor cooler, but man after all that effort to keep the top and bottoms sealed off from each other, this seams like defeating the purpose and could even cause the fan to suck hot air directly...

Maby I just order the "auxillary" tennis ball for those occasional 100 mile trips

)

Max Welton · Post by **Max Welton** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:13 pm

mpdykeman wrote:Putting a hole in the front brest plate seems kookie. He says it kept the motor cooler, but man after all that effort to keep the top and bottoms sealed off from each other, this seams like defeating the purpose and could even cause the fan to suck hot air directly...

I think the idea is to position the hose intake forward of the axel. The air up there isn't hot. In fact, I've heard of someone using a shop vac attachement to make a forward-facing "scoop".

Max

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:42 pm

Heres one:

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:17 pm

The 10 deg figure came from my (admittedly not verified) VDO oil gauge. I use it in conjunction with the GB temp dipstick. They at least seem to read the same, or close to it. I find it useful not as an absolute indicator, but rather to indentify temperature trends. Running hotter?, slow down. Still cool? Floor it!