problems with my 411

wopnick · Post by **wopnick** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:46 pm

Hey guys,
This is my 1st post but I've been reading the forums for a few months now sponging up all of the ingenius ideas you guys come up with. I bought a 71 4-Door Sedan 411 about 6 months ago and other then this one problem it's been running sweet. The problem I keep having is it eats up flex plates. I'm in the process of putting my third one in. On top of it the rear trans seal has already had to be replaced once. I'm not the greatest person with cars but I think I can safely assume that there must be other problems with the trans if this is the third flex plate I've had to replace. Any ideas on what else might be wrong with it or could it just be crappy manufacturing on the flex plates? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
-Wop Nick

Bobnotch · Post by **Bobnotch** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:42 pm

I'm not sure if this applies here, but have you been using the same torque converter? It might be a case of the nose of the converter not sitting squarely in the center hole of the flex plate, causing it to break them (mis-alignment). I know on a type3, if you use the wrong gland nut with the AT, you'll break the flex plate.

I hope this helps, and doesn't lead you astray.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:36 pm

Hey, are you doing the work or a VW mech.? I havent done a auto but look at some of the past post and hopefully Ray or someone has had that problem or will chime in! I wonder if you are actually having a mount issue and some how carrying the load on the flex/converter or maybe the converter isnt seating all the way like a american car when you have to turn the converter to get it to seat all the way before installing? Is the flex plate actually cracking or breaking the mount bolts? Sounds like to me that you are getting some kinda flex in the converter and the flex plate? Have to look at the books some more? I do know Ray has talked about how important the mount adjustment is at carrying the loads but it kinda sound like maybe the crank or tranny shaft is flexing??? Sorry dont know more, bill

wopnick · Post by **wopnick** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:41 pm

I'm not exactly sure. See I bought this car from a local VW parts dealer. The 411 had a blown rear main seal that I noticed the day after I bought it. It was leaking tranny fluid like crazy and dropping out of gear. So the guy I bought it from had it fixed. Not three weeks after fixing it the flex plate disinegrated and apparently sheared off the three bolts holding it to the torque converter. The mechanic who put the rear main seal in was apparently to blame because when he put the engine back in he didn't tighten things up properly causing it to do this. I never saw the damage to it and I'm not sure exactly what he replaced other then the flex plate and the bolts the bolt it to the torque converter. Me and a friend are thinking that this being the second time this has happened it could be too much freeplay in the input shaft on the tranny but I'm not to sure. This is all new to me. I know that the torque converter that's in it is the original (or so the guy I bought it from says). But there's a lot of damage on the back of torque converter and I've decided to replace it with a Code Z torque converter from the vanagon. Is there anything else i should replace with it or check that could nullify any problem between engine and tranny?

wopnick · Post by **wopnick** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:46 pm

thanks bill that helps a lot. I'm doing the work myself as it's cheaper and I need to learn my 411 back and forth anyways. The engine is running great and I know the crankshaft is good and strong so I'm thinkin it could be the tranny shaft. We'll see when I pull the torque converter this week. My car isn't where I'm living at as I have no storage for it and it's DOA right now. thanks again.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:53 pm

This is common. Some things to look at. For one, the crank endplay is probably off. Also, the torque converter bolts must be high grade...and have shaved heads....and very good threads. Between the crank endplay and thick heads, the converter bolts strike the case on shifting.
This eventually cracks the flexplate.

Its also common that the flexplate is warped, or that in really bad cases the torque converter is bent a little on the nose where it splines into the case. This is from....poor mechanics....just slamming the engine in. The position of the entire drive train package on a 411/412...must be aligned in three axis. There are two adjustments on the rear hanger bar.....with specific crush to be observed on the rear hanger bar bushings. There is specific spacing on the rear tail cone to crossmember. There are shims under the top attachments of each tranny hanger bushing at the case parting line.

Not adjusting the "sag" and position of the the drivetrain....puts load on the entire shaft lin-p on the auto tranny....causing problems like you are having....or worse.

Its not hard to do....it takes about 15 minutes. In fact...if the same engine and tranny are carefully put back into the same location they were...generally not much changes. But oif the hanger bar bushings either middle or rear are shot....and/or a major assembly changes......the alignmment must be adjusted. Just knowing what needs to be done is generally all it takes to make sure its not out of whack. Ray

wopnick · Post by **wopnick** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:02 am

thanks ray, that definetly puts me in the right direction. But where exactly are those bushing located that your tallking about. I can't seem to find em in my manual, and I haven't had a chance to look under the car.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:30 pm

In order from tail for the tranny back...you have
(1) There is a bumper on the end of the tranny. This rubber donut....can be replaced...by cutting a hole in the cneter of a front engine mount bushing from a 80's to 90's golf, cabriolet or fox. Its about 8 bucks.

this bumper....when the tranny is adjusted perfectly...must not really touch any of teh sides of teh hole in the subframe. There are three notched feeler gauges used against the metal part of the "horn" that rubber bushing fits on. The gauges are only described within the Clymer edition of the VW manual. It may be teh 412 manual....or it may be the one that describes bugs, busses, type 3, 411/412 up to 79. A crappy manual all told but that little tidbit is in there. I found you can do without the feeler gauges just by making dang sure that teh bushing...as looking into the hole from front to rear...is centered with no real pressure in any direction. The point....is that this bushing is only to arrest motion. It is not a "rest"...or load carrier.

100% of the tranny weight is held by the two bushings that are attached at the ears of the tranny case near the engine.

(2) the next thing to look at...while laying on your back under the car....is the gap...between the black metal plate bolted to the forward end of the tranny...that the horn and bushing is on. It mush be parrallel to teh rear beam...and have the same gap top and bottom.....More later...gotta go.Ray