Seatbelt bar

marekv8 · Post by **marekv8** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:56 am

I appreciate you guys posting this valuable information. After a recent near fatal accident in an air-cooled Volkwagen, I'm building a 1964 Beetle street car with safety taking priority over performance. I wish there were more safety-oriented threads on this forum. Best regards.

ToRy 70 · Post by **ToRy 70** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:33 pm

Yes, awesome info. I'm trying to go over my safety options too... I know it would be best to get a RLR cage with the seatbelt bar, but I want to keep my back seat.

Would a single roll-bar in the b-pillar area add anything?

JayInMI · Post by **JayInMI** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:27 pm

Aurumen wrote:Just be very careful wearing a 4 point harnass on the street or in road racing without a roll bar (or cage). I went to a road race a few years ago and a guy in a Neon rolled his car with a belt on. He was wearing a 4 point harnass and the roof collapsed on to his helmet. With the 4 point harnass on, his shoulders couldn't move so when the roof collapsed on him his head was pushed sideways. Luckily for him the roof didn't collapse too much, because if it had collaped just a few more inches it would have snapped his neck. With standard seat belts, when the roof collapses, your whole body gets pushed to the side. But with the 4 points, your head is the only point that can give. I have both the 4 point harnass and standard seat belts installed and use the regular seat belt to and from events.

Oh and remember when you slide off the course into the grass, drive straight! The guy in the neon tried to correct at high speed in the soft grass and his wheels dug in!

Nick

Happen to catch the guys name and where was the auto-x at? I came back to VW's again after being a Neon guy for 8 years. I just wonder if it was anyone I know. Thanks.

Jay

ericsbracer · Post by **ericsbracer** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:13 am

ToRy 70 wrote:Yes, awesome info. I'm trying to go over my safety options too... I know it would be best to get a RLR cage with the seatbelt bar, but I want to keep my back seat.

Would a single roll-bar in the b-pillar area add anything?

Not really - without some sort of forward or rearward support, the hoop will collapse or lay over.

Based on the pictures at the RLR site, the only problem with the back seat is going over (or under) the shoulder harness bar to get back there. The rear seat appears to be installed normally, and the access issue would be the same for either the bolt in bar or some sort of harness-only bar.

Now - FWIW - I'm not sure the RLR bar would be accepted for anything other than Auto-X/SOLO. The rules for most vintage orgs, as well as SCCA Regional/National racing wouldn't allow the bent/curved rear supports. Also - SCCA has some strict guidelines on materials, and I'm not sure the RLR bar is made from 'legal' tubing.

marekv8 · Post by **marekv8** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:07 pm

I've got the RLR chromoly bolt-in roll bar kit installed in my '64 Beetle (with both driver and passenger door bars) and the rear seat is fully functional. I've even got my 3-year-old son's car seat strapped in back there to boot. The amazing thing is that you can still get the rear seat bottom assembly out for battery access-- although I've relocated mine to the front.

It's a street car, and although jumping over the bar and strapping on the Crow five-point cam-lock harness (also from RLR) takes a bit longer, the gains in both safety and chassis rigidity are well worth it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:40 pm

Not really - without some sort of forward or rearward support, the hoop will collapse or lay over.

Thanks, was just mulling options over. Cross that one off.

I'm not really interested in any legal race applications, I just shuddered when I saw all those roll-over accidents. The "don't use race harnesses without a roll-cage" thing makes sense, too.

My dilemma is... I'm kind of a stereo buff. The RLR rear bars go right where my subs are going. So either they go, or the back seat goes. Hmm...

I'm almost thinking of building a six-point myself and designing it around the stuff already in the car. I just don't know if I'm up to it.

BTW, where do the RLR rear bars attach? Framehorns?

Bill K. · Post by **Bill K.** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:54 am

Anonymous wrote:BTW, where do the RLR rear bars attach? Framehorns?

You need to buy the RLR traction bar option to connect the cage to the frame horns. Otherwise, the rear bars attach to the luggage shelf similar to how the main loop attaches to the pan -- with bolts and a backing plate. The traction bar attaches to the sides of the rear trans mount with bolts.

Heres a picture with the traction bars attached.

Door bars (procar rally seats with corbeau 3 point retractable harness):

Retractable unit mounting attached to rear bar mount on luggage shelf:

No rear seat. Chromoly tubing, powdercoated.

ToRy 70 · Post by **ToRy 70** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:23 pm

Thanks for the pics and info Bill. That is a really cool install.
I'll have to think a lot before I spring either way.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:24 am

Does anyone have pics showing the bolt plates for the main hoop and front bar(s)? Getting some ideas.