Given:
1. mechanically sound Type 4 suspension with front lowered level with rear
2. used as daily driver with some track time for fun
3. 205/60/15 on 15x6 front/rear
4. correct brake balance, adjustment, bleeding, hoses, etc
5. mounting issues can be solved
6. the tires stop the car, not the brakes (they just stop the wheels...)
How much brake is overkill? What is the biggest "sensible performance" brake system (caliper size, disk size, master cylinder size) that works and feels better than stock, but doesn't break the bank just for show?
Tire vs. Brake Size
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Wally
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Do you really think you have options to choose from? 
I would say for any track time, you want/need ventilated disks up front, and the early 944 NA rear set up (which also has vented disks) is awesome and enough for most any application in our relatively light cars.
Just street driving could do without vented front disks in almost all cases imho.
What can you afford or want to spend is another question and will usually dictate most decisions.
Regards,
Walter
I would say for any track time, you want/need ventilated disks up front, and the early 944 NA rear set up (which also has vented disks) is awesome and enough for most any application in our relatively light cars.
Just street driving could do without vented front disks in almost all cases imho.
What can you afford or want to spend is another question and will usually dictate most decisions.
Regards,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Not to be disagreeable Wally...but where I live...with a daily driver 411 or 412, vented discs,(at least cross drilled)...better pads and better pedal pressure are pretty much required to stay alive with teh traffic and heat we have.
I agree...for track....as much ventilation as is possible. On teh street though, our stock brakes though some of the best ofr what VW put on stock....are lacking in fade resistance due to the inability to shed heat fast enough. Especially in hot climates like where I live.
Typically on a 100 F summer day...pavement temps reach 150 F. Ray
I agree...for track....as much ventilation as is possible. On teh street though, our stock brakes though some of the best ofr what VW put on stock....are lacking in fade resistance due to the inability to shed heat fast enough. Especially in hot climates like where I live.
Typically on a 100 F summer day...pavement temps reach 150 F. Ray
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Wally
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
I hear you Ray!
Different circumstances, different parts to use right
I, for one think that you can better err on the safe side with brakes.
Thats why I use a 944 rear disk set-up on my daily late square. I need to be able to out-break the modern ABS-equipped cars that drive 75-80 mph in front of me on the left lane on the highway
Its just that I don't want to advise people which results in them spending more than is absolutely neccesary.
Regards,
Walter
Different circumstances, different parts to use right
I, for one think that you can better err on the safe side with brakes.
Thats why I use a 944 rear disk set-up on my daily late square. I need to be able to out-break the modern ABS-equipped cars that drive 75-80 mph in front of me on the left lane on the highway
Its just that I don't want to advise people which results in them spending more than is absolutely neccesary.
Regards,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Man ain't that the truth. I also agree Wally...that bit of overkill is good....as long as one knows the limitations that overkill can impose in certain situations.
I don't think that you can actually get too much rotor ventilation on a type 4. In fact...one of the biggest ventilation headaches is the stock rim configuration. Between the highly enclosed offset and the small slots...the rotors themselves have very poor airflow around them.
The calipers themselves on teh stock rim do not do to badly. They are right next to the slots, but pad temperature and rotor temp....get ugly with hard stopping.
My stopping distance on my 412 dropped a noticable amount...just from cross drilling. A slotted rotor would be even better.
But...be circumspect for street applications...in what pad you go to...after adding that much cooling ability.
In teh beginning...I had a relatively hard, high temp pad that got great results on the street. After I added the cross drilling...those pads would not work right on the street. Stopping times increased.
I have a guy here at a brake wholesaler...who used to work at Kelsey Hayes in Canada. he knows all the friction codes and all of the temp codes of teh binder and filler materials. These are almost as important as the friction material itself...as their level of outgassing and compression govern "green" fade during high heat. He set me up with another set of pads that solved this. Pad selection is critical. Ray
I don't think that you can actually get too much rotor ventilation on a type 4. In fact...one of the biggest ventilation headaches is the stock rim configuration. Between the highly enclosed offset and the small slots...the rotors themselves have very poor airflow around them.
The calipers themselves on teh stock rim do not do to badly. They are right next to the slots, but pad temperature and rotor temp....get ugly with hard stopping.
My stopping distance on my 412 dropped a noticable amount...just from cross drilling. A slotted rotor would be even better.
But...be circumspect for street applications...in what pad you go to...after adding that much cooling ability.
In teh beginning...I had a relatively hard, high temp pad that got great results on the street. After I added the cross drilling...those pads would not work right on the street. Stopping times increased.
I have a guy here at a brake wholesaler...who used to work at Kelsey Hayes in Canada. he knows all the friction codes and all of the temp codes of teh binder and filler materials. These are almost as important as the friction material itself...as their level of outgassing and compression govern "green" fade during high heat. He set me up with another set of pads that solved this. Pad selection is critical. Ray