Exhaust Tail pipe ?

[vwbill]

Hey, is there two types of exhaust side tail pipes? I have the muffler that exits to the right(pass.) and the tail pipe that attaches to the side of the muffler that I have seesm to point up at the end causing a way for water to get in the muffler!! Should I try to heat it and bend it downward or drill a hole in the middle of that pipe for drainage?? I tried to bend it without heat with a six foot jack handle but nadda! I was also thiinking of a flapper like on a truck? thx bill

[Wally]

That tail pipe should not point upwards.
There are actually two lengths of those tail pipes. Neither points upwards tho.
It must be a bad copy of the original is my guess...

[vwbill]

Thanks for the reply! The end pipe doesn't point straight up just slightly up and the opening is facing to the rear. When you look at the back of the car you see the opening should it be pointing down? My end pipe when looking from the pass. side is tilted upwards maybe a few degrees?
Just after the 90 bend? bill

[albert]

hi, bill , he have 2 model for short tail pipe ,,, one for to go with left exit and one for right exit , you are shure your tail pipe is made for to go on the muffler with the right side exit ????alb.

[vonkr]

I believe that the exhaust with the exit on the right is originally for the bus (I have the same on my T4), but that doesn't matter (I hope ).

I think pointing the tail pipe down a few degrees would be better than a few degrees up. Can you unlock the bolts of the end pipe and maybe give it a little turn downwards?

Suc6, Ronald

[raygreenwood]

There were two basic types of muffler. All of them came stock on the 411/412. Why there were differences I don't know.
(1) Damper type. This is the most quiet...but the most restrictive. The tailpipe exits from teh center of the muffler. They are ...or were available in both right and left hand exit.
(2) The single outlet type. It was also available in right and left hand exit. This was also used on the bus and the 914.
There were at least five manufacturers. Leistritz, dansk (never a factory muffler), Ernst, Wagner and either Starla or starleiter....memory fades on that one.
The type 4 almsot always used teh right hand exit.
A couple degrees of "up" tilt should be no problem. It may also be a tilt in your engine. How well is the drive train aligned? Ray

[Wally]

There were at least five manufacturers. Leistritz, dansk (never a factory muffler), Ernst, Wagner and either Starla or starleiter....memory fades on that one.

You forgot the obvious: Volkswagen
I still have an original 'Volkswagen werk' original exhaust under it
It was made in 1985

[vonkr]

It was made in 1985

You have a birth certificate of that exhaust?
Sorry, can't help it, it's my sense of humor.....

[albert]

hi, bill , wy you d,t do a slut in the 3 hole on your tail pipe , you can turn , plus if you heat ,,,red,,, this tail pipe, you change the mollécule composition and he rust more fast afther ,,, and i am positive you have 2 model of tail pipe ,, long or short ,,, left or right ,,,plus for the 1700cc you have midle exit for the right or left ,,, the midle exit com for the type 3 -1600 cc, and adapt on the type4 for the 1700cc but afther on the 1800cc vw change that for the short tail pipe , and with the left tail pipe ,short or long , with the back wind, wend your car is stop on the red light and driver door glass down , you can smeal the exhaust ,, betther on the right side ,,, alb.

[Wally]

It was made in 1985

You have a birth certificate of that exhaust?
Sorry, can't help it, it's my sense of humor.....

Sort of: with an original exhaust, the production date is stamped into it. I even believe the week or month of that year is also there..

Worse: the heat exchangers still have the original VW decall with bar-code on them!

Maybe next the 412 meeting with the 25 year anniversary of the 412club, I'll show you

[raygreenwood]

Thanks Wally...you are exactly correct. I forgot about VW's. They were about the middle of the range in quality (which is not slouchy at all). They were heavy ...and heavy duty ...like the Ernst. The Ernst I have ...has the exact date stamped into it. Most of the manufacturers listed make a high quality tough product for this part. I beat on Dansk...only because they do not clean up their welds around teh ports. But it is a good muffler all teh same. Ray

[vwbill]

Hey thanks for the posts! My exhaust exits out the right side not middle and has a maybe nine inch tail pipe end. I guess I might try alberts tail pipe hole change idea? Ray can you describe the engine and tranny level procedure again? Need to put that in the sticky note!! Do mufflers have weep holes for condensation? thx bill

[vonkr]

with an original exhaust, the production date is stamped into it.

He I'll check it on my spare exhaust that I got for free on the technical 411/412 day last year (an extra reason to come on this day ). No idea if the spare one is an original one or not.

[wildthings]

When I replaced the muffler and tail pipe on my 411 a year or so back using Type 2 parts, I didn't like the angle of the tail pipe so I just cut it off and rewelded it at an angle I liked. If you don't have welding facilities just go to a muffler shop and they should be willing to do it for you for $10 bucks or so.

[raygreenwood]

You may very well be finding the bus tail pipes as compared to dedicated 411/412 tailpipes. I will see if I have a part # for the tail pipe in 411/412. Then we can see if it differs from what you are buying. I do know this though. When you find a well made stock tail pipe...if you take care of it...it can last through numerous mufflers.

I have noted the powertrain alignment issues in a few posts. It is important enough that I will repeat it anytime.

A lot of the alignment issues are strictly for longevity of the automatic...but also mean the world in shifting for the four speed. I suspect, that many people who are putting the type 4 engine into a type 3 with the auto tranny will have long term wear issues because they disregard the original factory information conderning alignment and weight distribution of the type 4 powerplant and 003 tranny.

Here is the gist of it. This info is only in one book that I know. That would be the Clymer manual...which is totally useless save for tranny alignment and teh section on teh heater with the wiring diagrams.

Reason for alignment:
Both the auto tranny and the type 004 four speed have a common issue. The case while rigid (magnesium ally)...is very long. Leverage on the case due to suspending it from its ends...distorts the case...which distorts the main shaft (about 3+ feet long). This causes wear all over the place. It also commonly will snap the tail cone. On the automatic, distortion of the case by suspending from both ends, will distort the seal at the torque converter and distort...potentially...the oil pump drive shaft leading to early failure.

Look at the rear hanger bar. At its ends, you notice it has vertical slotted holes for the two 8mm horizontal bolts. This allows you to use teh 8mm next next to it ...on the vertical 8mm stud.....to adjust the rear of teh drive train package up or down for fine tuning.
Side to side is accomplished here as well.....as the ende of the hanger bar is slotted so the vertical 8mm stud has side to side movement.
Yo ualso get all around movement at teh hanger bar mounts where they attach to teh body. The nuts in the body are slotted and allows about 1/2" movement in any direction.

The center hanger bar that is over the tranny/case parting line....supports 100% of the weight of the engine. It is a pivot point.

When you properly remove the tranny from the car...you leave the fat black bushings bolted to the flat support bar at the case/tranny parting line...which is bolted to the body. Both of those bushings are held to the body by a pair of vertical 8mm bolts. Under those bushings....are SHIMS.

These shims set the baseline height for the driveline package. If you lose tehse shims...they just happen to be the exact same shim as those for adjusting the camber on an early 80's saab 900. They are available at any saab shop.

The object:
In the clymer manual...they give dimensions for three flat metal stock gauges. These gauges are used....to reach through the hole in
the rear trailing arm cross member....and measure the centering of the bump stop donut that is bolted to the tail of both teh automatic and 004 four speed.
The donut bushing...must not be actually compressed in contact with any of the walls in the hole in teh crossmember. It must be freefloating. It is not designed to have any load whatsoever. It simply arrests and damps movement.
Also...teh two bushings in teh center of teh rear hanger bar must not be compressed. Sadly...the only book that lists teh compression height of the hanger bar bushings...is actually in the supplement section of the Haynes Bus manual.....in teh supplement section for the type 4 engine.

Summary:
The rear hanger bar bushings shoudl have no more than about 50 lbs load on them. You should be able to unflex them by pushing upward with one hand on teh muffler. Very low load.
The tail cone bumper should be centered in all axes. A light one handed push in any direction on teh tail of the tranny shoudl produce about 1/8" movement before3 teh rubber arrests it.

Since all of this is suspended by teh center hanger bar....teh adjustments at the rear bar simply slew teh whole package around.
Gross side to side centering adjustments can also be done at the center hanger bar bushings at the tranny. Those two large bushings with the two vertical 8mm bolts at the bell housing...are also slotted.....and move side to side. Ray