Well, I sold Bluebelle. I sold her to a wonderful guy who is going to love her to bits and has already starting planning resotrations on the things she needs. he lives in Northern BC and is trailering her there later in the spring. I gave him this web address and told him to come by and ask if he needed help so heads up if a new guy shows up! Wanted to thank you all for your help while I had my 412. it was quite the experience.
Cheers
Jen
I Sold My 412
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Godd News??
Well hope she went to a great home! Sorry we couldn't get you on the road with a finished 412 sedan!! But I think you have the new owner closer to a great running and driving 412! Hope you find what you need to drive and in life! Stop by and say "hi" sometimes! Take care Jen and rnjoy!!
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SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
Hey folks,
Yes, I am the one that bought the car from Jen. The cheque cleared last week, the car has been registered, and Jen has generously agreed to hold the car for a short time until I make arrangements to pick it up. I live about 500 miles north of Jen, and it's still a little like winter here.
I can't wait to get it home and start working through the issues. I got to see the car on Feb 26th, and even got to test drive it. It rode/drove really nice, but I did notice the occasional stumbling. I was already aware of the F.I. problems, so I wasn't too concerned. If this car wasn't a runner, then I would have lilkely shyed away.
I read her thread on her F.I. woes, and had also come up with a lot of guesses/ideas in common with the comments posted. I'm going to start with refreshing all fuel & vacuum lines, and replace the pushrod tube seals and valve cover gaskets. I think that this car suffers from some major vacuum loss, and is the major contributor to the problems.
This will be my second type 4; my first one was a '71 411 wagon (4spd), and I loved it. I actually looked at a '72 411 wagon for sale a couple of years back, but lost my job before I could buy it. Now that my new business is on stable ground, I can get into a new project.
I also own a few type-3's, and a '73 Westy, so my wife thinks I'm a little twisted.
Anyhow, you'll likely see me posting tech questions from time-to-time, and judging from the replies that Jen received in her thread, I think there's a fine crowd of VW people to be found here.
Travis
Yes, I am the one that bought the car from Jen. The cheque cleared last week, the car has been registered, and Jen has generously agreed to hold the car for a short time until I make arrangements to pick it up. I live about 500 miles north of Jen, and it's still a little like winter here.
I can't wait to get it home and start working through the issues. I got to see the car on Feb 26th, and even got to test drive it. It rode/drove really nice, but I did notice the occasional stumbling. I was already aware of the F.I. problems, so I wasn't too concerned. If this car wasn't a runner, then I would have lilkely shyed away.
I read her thread on her F.I. woes, and had also come up with a lot of guesses/ideas in common with the comments posted. I'm going to start with refreshing all fuel & vacuum lines, and replace the pushrod tube seals and valve cover gaskets. I think that this car suffers from some major vacuum loss, and is the major contributor to the problems.
This will be my second type 4; my first one was a '71 411 wagon (4spd), and I loved it. I actually looked at a '72 411 wagon for sale a couple of years back, but lost my job before I could buy it. Now that my new business is on stable ground, I can get into a new project.
I also own a few type-3's, and a '73 Westy, so my wife thinks I'm a little twisted.
Anyhow, you'll likely see me posting tech questions from time-to-time, and judging from the replies that Jen received in her thread, I think there's a fine crowd of VW people to be found here.
Travis
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Welcome!
Hey Travis, congrates on the new cruizer! I would do the valve adjustment if I did the cover gaskets and I had the big intake rubber tube leaks and they were new! The fuel lines and testing and setting the pressure from the left test tee on the fuel rail can tell alot and a drive after setting Ign. timing/dwell to setup the MPS after you pull that epoxy plug. The CHT and ground terminal clean under the left fuel intakes. IS a good check or mod. or replace the CHT?? Well hope you get her to spect out O2 and setup!! bill
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SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
Hey Bill,
Yeah, I hear you on the valve adjustment......when I looked at the car on Feb 26, I did notice that they sounded a little 'clacketty,' and I think I remember 412Jen had mentioned that the shop she was taking it to had done that for her.......sadly, I don't think they did.
I think I'll also put a gauge on the rockers to see how much lift I'm getting off the cam. I don't think this engine has ever been rebuilt, and the cam could be worn-out too.
Another thing I noticed from Jen's repair shop is their compression readings, which was '150' on all cylinders. Jen sent me a huge package containing receipts over the years since the car's 'birth,' and when I review the history and work performed by VW dealers, the compression readings are very realistic, showing very slight decline over the years. The last 'believeable' readings range from 135-to-150 over the four cylinders. I don't think 150 on all 4 is believeable -- was this a test done with the fuel pump disabled, or was this a wet-test with fuel being sprayed down the cylinders??? You know what I mean?
I intend on replacing every vacuum/fuel line, including those intake runner hoses, and that CHT sensor is something that has come to mind too. California Import Parts has their main branch located in Langley, B.C., and is only about 20 minutes from Jen's place, so I already have a mental list going of parts I'm going to grab (CHT sensor being one of them) when I make it down to trailer the car home.
Unlike Jen, I am not subject to that Aircare B.S. where I live, so at least I can put plates/insurance on the car while I do the tuning and testing. I felt bad for Jen and all the crap she went through with the 'repairs' and Aircare testing.
I find that when you mention the 411/412's to mechanics & repair shops, you get the immediate brush-off. They were a very mis-understood vehicle. Hell, if you even read John Muir's 'How To Keep YOur Volkswagen Alive' book, he describes a very thorough plain-language step-by-step procedure on how to test each individual part of the F.I. system that the average backyard mechanic can follow. Why can't these repair shops figure this out? I think it's because they don't want to -- "Oh, a 412? Yeah sorry, we don't work on those here." (Yeah, okay, go back to your Chevies and QuadraJets, monkey-boy!)
Anyhow, despite the fact I'm not subjected to AirCare, I still intend to get emmisions back to spec.
MAN I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THE CAR HOME !!! -- Sorry, I'll try to contain my excitement.
Thanks for the tips, Bill, and keep them coming ! All and any advice is appreciated.
Travis
Yeah, I hear you on the valve adjustment......when I looked at the car on Feb 26, I did notice that they sounded a little 'clacketty,' and I think I remember 412Jen had mentioned that the shop she was taking it to had done that for her.......sadly, I don't think they did.
I think I'll also put a gauge on the rockers to see how much lift I'm getting off the cam. I don't think this engine has ever been rebuilt, and the cam could be worn-out too.
Another thing I noticed from Jen's repair shop is their compression readings, which was '150' on all cylinders. Jen sent me a huge package containing receipts over the years since the car's 'birth,' and when I review the history and work performed by VW dealers, the compression readings are very realistic, showing very slight decline over the years. The last 'believeable' readings range from 135-to-150 over the four cylinders. I don't think 150 on all 4 is believeable -- was this a test done with the fuel pump disabled, or was this a wet-test with fuel being sprayed down the cylinders??? You know what I mean?
I intend on replacing every vacuum/fuel line, including those intake runner hoses, and that CHT sensor is something that has come to mind too. California Import Parts has their main branch located in Langley, B.C., and is only about 20 minutes from Jen's place, so I already have a mental list going of parts I'm going to grab (CHT sensor being one of them) when I make it down to trailer the car home.
Unlike Jen, I am not subject to that Aircare B.S. where I live, so at least I can put plates/insurance on the car while I do the tuning and testing. I felt bad for Jen and all the crap she went through with the 'repairs' and Aircare testing.
I find that when you mention the 411/412's to mechanics & repair shops, you get the immediate brush-off. They were a very mis-understood vehicle. Hell, if you even read John Muir's 'How To Keep YOur Volkswagen Alive' book, he describes a very thorough plain-language step-by-step procedure on how to test each individual part of the F.I. system that the average backyard mechanic can follow. Why can't these repair shops figure this out? I think it's because they don't want to -- "Oh, a 412? Yeah sorry, we don't work on those here." (Yeah, okay, go back to your Chevies and QuadraJets, monkey-boy!)
Anyhow, despite the fact I'm not subjected to AirCare, I still intend to get emmisions back to spec.
MAN I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THE CAR HOME !!! -- Sorry, I'll try to contain my excitement.
Thanks for the tips, Bill, and keep them coming ! All and any advice is appreciated.
Travis
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SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
I have the car home now !!!
I've got the car home now! I ended up renting a U-Haul trailer, and trucking it home myself. All of the wonderful offers of help (loans of a trailer, cash deals to haul it for me, etc) were all weak offers. So screw it, I did it myself. Too bad gasoline prices are so high...... 
The first thing I looked for when I loaded the car onto the trailer was to see if the 'green' vacuum line to the vacuum-retard side was present (because I noticed in February that it wasn't connected), and there it was: hiding under the distributor body. I fired the engine up, connected the hose, and the RPM's dropped. I believe this was the source of the major vacuum leak.....and now my mission is to refresh all of the vacuum lines to hunt down any minor leaks. So far, with my tinkering, I've got the horns and the fuel gauge working again (turns out it was the actual gauge in the dash)
.
Anyhow, I just thought I'd share my news with those that have been following along with Jen and this car. I'm itching to get going on this car, but my wife tells me that I've got to get our Westy finished first so we can sell it. It's funny: she thinks there's too many VW's in the driveway
Let's see, a '68 Fastback, the '73 Westy, the latest edition (412), and my Ford pickup, to her one Corolla......ahh, she's just jealous.
Travis
The first thing I looked for when I loaded the car onto the trailer was to see if the 'green' vacuum line to the vacuum-retard side was present (because I noticed in February that it wasn't connected), and there it was: hiding under the distributor body. I fired the engine up, connected the hose, and the RPM's dropped. I believe this was the source of the major vacuum leak.....and now my mission is to refresh all of the vacuum lines to hunt down any minor leaks. So far, with my tinkering, I've got the horns and the fuel gauge working again (turns out it was the actual gauge in the dash)
.Anyhow, I just thought I'd share my news with those that have been following along with Jen and this car. I'm itching to get going on this car, but my wife tells me that I've got to get our Westy finished first so we can sell it. It's funny: she thinks there's too many VW's in the driveway
Let's see, a '68 Fastback, the '73 Westy, the latest edition (412), and my Ford pickup, to her one Corolla......ahh, she's just jealous.Travis
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Great to hear you got her home!! I guess that was good news about the greeen vac line to the dist., well at least for you but very lame for Jen after paying to have all that checked!! I'll bet that was one of the big issues! I would check the valve adjustment since I wouldnt trust the work they had done! It really effected my start up! Also I think the valve covers were leaking on the bluebell? Well good luck with her and the westy project! What you doing on that one? I always couldn't understand why so many people wouldn't replace that doughnut filler neck to body rubber ring so they would just only fill the tank half way!!! That and the expansion tank being cracked in the back so you couldnt see it or the wrong thermostat since they had different types so I always got it from VW or using the wrong coolant type and screwing the head gaskets! Take care and thanks for the update and sorry you couldnt get help with the hauling! Bill
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SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
Hey Bill,
Well, as the old saying goes: "if you want it done right, you gotta do it yerself!" I'm just happy it's home.
My wife and I also own a '73 Westy, and so far I have reupholstered the back cushions and seating, replaced the interior panels, and replaced the flooring. I have the front seats to do yet, and I'll likely re-do the front door panels to match the seats. I ended up quickly whipping up a set of door panels with fabric and vinyl I had in-stock 2 years ago, and although it got us by for a while, I really have other plans in mind for them.
I also have some minor mechanical work to complete on it. It too has oil leaks (valve covers, pushrod tube seals, and I think the oil cooler), so I want to take care of that soon. I also have a new oil cooler for it, and I want to replace the transmission and clutch in it. I found a "5-Rib Pyramid" tranny for this van, which has a better R&P ratio and 3rd-to-4th-gear spacing for highway traveling. The original tranny has whined in 3rd and 4th since well before I bought it, so I wanted to change it anyways......and now I can put in the tranny I wanted!
Then, after I've completed this work, it's going up for sale. Sounds crazy, but my wife and I have out-grown this van as a camping unit. It fit in really nice with my VW hobby, but we're thinking of buying a trailer or a class-C motorhome next. Besides, my driveway is too full right now.
Catch you later.
Travis
Well, as the old saying goes: "if you want it done right, you gotta do it yerself!" I'm just happy it's home.
My wife and I also own a '73 Westy, and so far I have reupholstered the back cushions and seating, replaced the interior panels, and replaced the flooring. I have the front seats to do yet, and I'll likely re-do the front door panels to match the seats. I ended up quickly whipping up a set of door panels with fabric and vinyl I had in-stock 2 years ago, and although it got us by for a while, I really have other plans in mind for them.
I also have some minor mechanical work to complete on it. It too has oil leaks (valve covers, pushrod tube seals, and I think the oil cooler), so I want to take care of that soon. I also have a new oil cooler for it, and I want to replace the transmission and clutch in it. I found a "5-Rib Pyramid" tranny for this van, which has a better R&P ratio and 3rd-to-4th-gear spacing for highway traveling. The original tranny has whined in 3rd and 4th since well before I bought it, so I wanted to change it anyways......and now I can put in the tranny I wanted!
Then, after I've completed this work, it's going up for sale. Sounds crazy, but my wife and I have out-grown this van as a camping unit. It fit in really nice with my VW hobby, but we're thinking of buying a trailer or a class-C motorhome next. Besides, my driveway is too full right now.
Catch you later.
Travis
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Hey surefit, it always seems when I would get my van sweet I would need to sell it after all the work!! Sounds like someone is going to get a sweet cruizer van!! Have fun with the 412 work! I know the 1.7L djet is better compression ratio and adjustability but I don't think I will build a 1.7L domer piston engine next time I will do the 1.8L Ljet setup! I just don't remember having the issues with that setup as my 1.7L and the tolerances! bill
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SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
Just a bit of an update on this car for those of you that were trying to help Jen with her poor fuel economy.....I haven't had much of a chance to work on this car until lately, however I did get around to at least doing a valve adjustment.....and there was quite a bit of lash.
The most interesting bit for the moment was discovered when I tried checking the timing. I set it at '0' at idle, and when I brought up the RPM's to check total advance (mechanical), I kept getting varying readings for when it hit 27-degrees. Sometimes it was at 2100, sometimes 2400....so, I set it at 27-degrees at 3500 RPM, and then idle was way behind '0.'
I decided to pop the distributor cap off and check the action of the vacuum and mechanical advances, and they were both sticking.....so out came the distributor. I took it all apart and cleaned everything, but seeing how I started this project so late in the day (and lost daylight), I'm going to have to tackle it tomorrow, and lube everything back up again. Anyone have suggestions on the best kind of grease to use?
Anyhow, we're getting closer on tracking down the bad fuel economy issues that Jen had with this car. I still have to change all of the vacuum lines yet (and fuel lines). Despite the excessive fuel consumption, this car runs/drives really nice! If I get some of these problems worked out in time, I might just drive it the 500 miles to attend the Great Canadian VW Show in August!
Travis
The most interesting bit for the moment was discovered when I tried checking the timing. I set it at '0' at idle, and when I brought up the RPM's to check total advance (mechanical), I kept getting varying readings for when it hit 27-degrees. Sometimes it was at 2100, sometimes 2400....so, I set it at 27-degrees at 3500 RPM, and then idle was way behind '0.'
I decided to pop the distributor cap off and check the action of the vacuum and mechanical advances, and they were both sticking.....so out came the distributor. I took it all apart and cleaned everything, but seeing how I started this project so late in the day (and lost daylight), I'm going to have to tackle it tomorrow, and lube everything back up again. Anyone have suggestions on the best kind of grease to use?
Anyhow, we're getting closer on tracking down the bad fuel economy issues that Jen had with this car. I still have to change all of the vacuum lines yet (and fuel lines). Despite the excessive fuel consumption, this car runs/drives really nice! If I get some of these problems worked out in time, I might just drive it the 500 miles to attend the Great Canadian VW Show in August!
Travis
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
The best grease I have found for all uses in teh distributor....is a product that used to be marketed by peramtex...called superlube. You can find it on teh web by typing in keyword....syncholon. It is a clear (like vaseline) 100% synthetic/non-toxic, extreme pressure grease with a drop point close to 385+ f. You need the high drop point to keep teh grease from running all over teh dizzy. Nice thing is that is stays a very light creamy consistancy like vaseline....so it doesn't gum up....all the way to about -40F. Ray
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SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
Thanks Ray, I'll look for that. I was worried about what kind of lube to use, as I didn't want to put something in there that was going to goop it all up and collect dirt/dust/filings.
I also noticed on the points plate that there were three tiny round 'pads,' which appear to be graphite.....and one is missing. I'm going to have to dig through my parts piles and try to rob one from another unit. I've got the plate freed up and moving nicely, but this missing one was just under the side that the vac-advance arm attaches. I'd feel better if it was there.
Thanks again, Ray.
Travis
I also noticed on the points plate that there were three tiny round 'pads,' which appear to be graphite.....and one is missing. I'm going to have to dig through my parts piles and try to rob one from another unit. I've got the plate freed up and moving nicely, but this missing one was just under the side that the vac-advance arm attaches. I'd feel better if it was there.
Thanks again, Ray.
Travis
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Thats odd....I have never seen the graphite pads but it would make sense. Normally the bottom of the top point plate...has what Icall a "glide ring"...or a polished ring that meets up with another polished ring or groove in teh bottom stationary plate. I polish those very smooth and put lubricant between them. It really helps teh accuracy of the advance. Ray