Hey people,
Does anyone have any clue on where I can find a replacement air filter for my 73 412? It still has the round filter, and my local parts guys can't seem to find one for me, not even from measurements.
Does anyone have a brand and part number I can go by, or any suggestions on where to find one?
Thanks!
Travis
Round air filter....Part number?
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raygreenwood
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SureFit Travis
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ubercrap
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albert
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:08 pm
round air filter
hi, surefit, the exact parts no. for your air filter , is 022-129-620 if you have the no.620 on the air filter cover ,mann do that and the parts no. is ,,,c 2180 , bughaus.co sale that , but make attention some people sale a model with smale différence on the hight 1/16 différence and the cover d,t close correct he make air leak ,,very important no air leak with the injection , ask for the exact dimention of your air filter,, and the price is appx 15.$ look in the pélican porshe parts they sale the same model bosh at 20.$
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raygreenwood
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SureFit Travis
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- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
Thanks for the replies, people. I think I have now located them.
Now I'm looking for replacement hose for the heating system, from the heat exchangers to the gas heater over the transaxle, which I just got working again. They are the paper-&-foil combination, and measure 2-1/4 inches in diameter. So far, my local parts places only have up to 2-inch. I might be trying truck shops next.
For those that have been following along with this car, I have replaced every fuel and vacuum line/hose, replaced the throttle-valve switch with a new Bosch unit (from Germany, one of two left!), and am pretty sure I have elimated any chances of vacuum leaks (left side intake manifold was loose to boot!). But........I still haven't cured the poor fuel economy issue. The car runs like a top, lots of power, but once the gas gauge falls below 3/4-tank, you can almost watch it go down from there as you drive it. I'm still working on it (now that my business is starting to slow down and I finally have time to breathe), but haven't cured it yet.
Oh well, she looks real purdy with my newly painted Baja Marathon rims on it.
Travis
Now I'm looking for replacement hose for the heating system, from the heat exchangers to the gas heater over the transaxle, which I just got working again. They are the paper-&-foil combination, and measure 2-1/4 inches in diameter. So far, my local parts places only have up to 2-inch. I might be trying truck shops next.
For those that have been following along with this car, I have replaced every fuel and vacuum line/hose, replaced the throttle-valve switch with a new Bosch unit (from Germany, one of two left!), and am pretty sure I have elimated any chances of vacuum leaks (left side intake manifold was loose to boot!). But........I still haven't cured the poor fuel economy issue. The car runs like a top, lots of power, but once the gas gauge falls below 3/4-tank, you can almost watch it go down from there as you drive it. I'm still working on it (now that my business is starting to slow down and I finally have time to breathe), but haven't cured it yet.
Oh well, she looks real purdy with my newly painted Baja Marathon rims on it.
Travis
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
. I came across the paper and foil hose part #'s in my book. I had peeled the part# stickers off and stuck them in teh book last I bought them. I will drop in tommorrow. Ray-
SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
I'm really stumped on this excess fuel consumption. I drove the car from my shop to a parts store, and back again (3.5-mile round-trip), and again, I could literally watch the gas gauge dropping as I drove it.
I have questions about how to test the thermo-switch under the air distribution box/right intake runner -- I can't seem to find any info in my books on this part about how to test it's function. Could this part have failed and give me the poor fuel economy? How does one test this part?
I've already tested the temp sensors in both the head and the air intake, and both are within specs. I've gone through the hoses (fuel and vacuum) to replace/renew, and I even replaced the intake runner hoses AND clamped them. My valves are set, my timing is set, fuel pressure is set.......what have I overlooked? I even pulled out all of the injectors (including the cold-start injector) to do a leak-down test, and check the spray pattern......not a one leaks, and the spray is great on the 4 main injectors. The cold-start injector didn't spray, but I assume that since the car was parked in my shop, it was too warm to make it work.
I'm going to be putting this car away for winter within the next few weeks, and I was hoping to have this cured before it goes into storage.
Again, any tips are appreciated.
Travis
I have questions about how to test the thermo-switch under the air distribution box/right intake runner -- I can't seem to find any info in my books on this part about how to test it's function. Could this part have failed and give me the poor fuel economy? How does one test this part?
I've already tested the temp sensors in both the head and the air intake, and both are within specs. I've gone through the hoses (fuel and vacuum) to replace/renew, and I even replaced the intake runner hoses AND clamped them. My valves are set, my timing is set, fuel pressure is set.......what have I overlooked? I even pulled out all of the injectors (including the cold-start injector) to do a leak-down test, and check the spray pattern......not a one leaks, and the spray is great on the 4 main injectors. The cold-start injector didn't spray, but I assume that since the car was parked in my shop, it was too warm to make it work.
I'm going to be putting this car away for winter within the next few weeks, and I was hoping to have this cured before it goes into storage.
Again, any tips are appreciated.
Travis
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Seriuosly check for fuel leaks. Especially in the return loop after the regulator. The car will drive fine with a return loop leak...but fuel will escape. You may not smell it because it is behind you.
Also..what is the condition of your MPS? If yo uhave any vacuum leaks...it will gobble fuel. If you have an automatic..also check the vacuum line to the transmission.
Other common sources of leaks:
Runner boots
injector seals
cork gasket under the oil breather
intake gaskets
TB o-ring next to the throttle body
valve cover gaskets
Lastly...and one of the most important....the PCV valve.
If your oil breather has a 12mm hose that goes from next to the funnel to the plenum......the whitish plastic nipple that this hose connects to is teh top of the PCV valve. It is accessable from underneath via a "D"shaped plastic plug.
The problem is several fold. (1) the disc in teh PCV wears and cracks gicing a constant vacuum leak....that dumps in right next to teh MPS vacuum line. It causes horrible fuel milage and poor performance.
Also...since the PCV valve opens by both vacuum and from crankcase pressure...it is totally unregulated and un-timed. It is a major performance and fuel problem. Every time it opens...it causes teh MPS to add fuel. That the car runs decent from the factory makes no difference. If you knock the guts out of the PCV valve...
then install a plastic marble or plug into the 12mm line...with about a 3-4mm hole drilled through it....you get excellent constant crankcase ventilation.....that you can adjust for at teh MPS and the idle screw. You can tune the engine tighter. Ray
Also..what is the condition of your MPS? If yo uhave any vacuum leaks...it will gobble fuel. If you have an automatic..also check the vacuum line to the transmission.
Other common sources of leaks:
Runner boots
injector seals
cork gasket under the oil breather
intake gaskets
TB o-ring next to the throttle body
valve cover gaskets
Lastly...and one of the most important....the PCV valve.
If your oil breather has a 12mm hose that goes from next to the funnel to the plenum......the whitish plastic nipple that this hose connects to is teh top of the PCV valve. It is accessable from underneath via a "D"shaped plastic plug.
The problem is several fold. (1) the disc in teh PCV wears and cracks gicing a constant vacuum leak....that dumps in right next to teh MPS vacuum line. It causes horrible fuel milage and poor performance.
Also...since the PCV valve opens by both vacuum and from crankcase pressure...it is totally unregulated and un-timed. It is a major performance and fuel problem. Every time it opens...it causes teh MPS to add fuel. That the car runs decent from the factory makes no difference. If you knock the guts out of the PCV valve...
then install a plastic marble or plug into the 12mm line...with about a 3-4mm hole drilled through it....you get excellent constant crankcase ventilation.....that you can adjust for at teh MPS and the idle screw. You can tune the engine tighter. Ray
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SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
Hey Ray,
Okay, so I replaced most of the fuel lines......however, I was thinking backwards thinking that fuel came into the regulator on the left, and returned out the right.....but now realize that I am wrong, and it is the reversed direction. I haven't replaced the line coming IN to the first pair of injectors at the rear of the car (ahead of the transaxle). Even though I haven't replaced it (yet), it is not leaking. I'm gonna replace it, I promise. Also, I have been using F.I. rated fuel line for this loop, and securely clamping all connections.
Okay, now you must remember that this was 412Jen's car that I bought, and she did put in a replacement MPS, as the original was apparently no longer holding vacuum. I have checked it myself, and it holds vacuum indefinitely. I have never taken it out, or removed the epoxy to do any adjustments.......which I'm hoping I can leave for last (as I find it a little intimidating). I'm afraid I'll screw it up......yeah, yeah, chicken.
The runner boots have been replaced, and clamped. The injector seals have been replaced (including the large ones), and are not leaking. I did see your comment to Jen to buy CIS seals for an 80 Rabbit......sorry, what does CIS stand for?
I have just removed the oil breather to check the PCV valve, and will replace the cork gasket now.
I popped the hose off of the plenum from the PCV valve today, and of course the idle rose quickly......so I quickly blocked it at the plenum, and RPM's fell way down below where it normally is with the hose attached.....does this indicate a problem, or is this normal to you? Shall I replace the PCV (if available) or do the modification you describe?
Also, I did notice that the plastic top securing nut for the PCV was not tight.......when I reassemble it, would O-rings on top and bottom of the PCV to the breather case be a good idea?
Oh, and I do have one confession; this car does leak oil, which Jen mentioned in her threads, and it is the pushrod tube seals. I have them, but haven't had the time to replace them yet. It dripped so much oil over the heater boxes that I have bought a second set of boxes......I planned on degreasing and cleaning up these other boxes before I got into changing the seals so that I could change them at the same time. I want to make use of the heating system again....why not, everything else in the car is otherwise complete and functioning as it should (and I do live in Northern British Columbia).
Oh, and I did discover a slight vacuum leak around the cold-start injector.....which I will fix this weekend.
I anxiously await your wisdom.
Travis
Okay, so I replaced most of the fuel lines......however, I was thinking backwards thinking that fuel came into the regulator on the left, and returned out the right.....but now realize that I am wrong, and it is the reversed direction. I haven't replaced the line coming IN to the first pair of injectors at the rear of the car (ahead of the transaxle). Even though I haven't replaced it (yet), it is not leaking. I'm gonna replace it, I promise. Also, I have been using F.I. rated fuel line for this loop, and securely clamping all connections.
Okay, now you must remember that this was 412Jen's car that I bought, and she did put in a replacement MPS, as the original was apparently no longer holding vacuum. I have checked it myself, and it holds vacuum indefinitely. I have never taken it out, or removed the epoxy to do any adjustments.......which I'm hoping I can leave for last (as I find it a little intimidating). I'm afraid I'll screw it up......yeah, yeah, chicken.
The runner boots have been replaced, and clamped. The injector seals have been replaced (including the large ones), and are not leaking. I did see your comment to Jen to buy CIS seals for an 80 Rabbit......sorry, what does CIS stand for?
I have just removed the oil breather to check the PCV valve, and will replace the cork gasket now.
I popped the hose off of the plenum from the PCV valve today, and of course the idle rose quickly......so I quickly blocked it at the plenum, and RPM's fell way down below where it normally is with the hose attached.....does this indicate a problem, or is this normal to you? Shall I replace the PCV (if available) or do the modification you describe?
Also, I did notice that the plastic top securing nut for the PCV was not tight.......when I reassemble it, would O-rings on top and bottom of the PCV to the breather case be a good idea?
Oh, and I do have one confession; this car does leak oil, which Jen mentioned in her threads, and it is the pushrod tube seals. I have them, but haven't had the time to replace them yet. It dripped so much oil over the heater boxes that I have bought a second set of boxes......I planned on degreasing and cleaning up these other boxes before I got into changing the seals so that I could change them at the same time. I want to make use of the heating system again....why not, everything else in the car is otherwise complete and functioning as it should (and I do live in Northern British Columbia).
Oh, and I did discover a slight vacuum leak around the cold-start injector.....which I will fix this weekend.
I anxiously await your wisdom.
Travis
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
It sounds odd to many people....but the PCV loop in this engine in the injected form...has a closed loop. Anything that vents the crankcase to anything but the plenum...will be a vacuum leak. Pushrod tube seals can do that.
It is worth it to replace all of the fuel lines. The first 411 i ever owned...it took me forever to find that I had several leaking injectors. Thats because teh pressure leaked back and the fuel evaporated off due to hewat before I could get out of the car and go back and check.
Course...I was in high school and young and stupid so it never occoured to me to have someone help me
. The same can happen with fuel lines.
CIS stands for Continuous injection system. It came on rabbits, Jettas and sirroccos as well as Volvos, Saabs and Mercedes. Just ask for seals from any early 80's rabbit, Golf or Jetta. They fit tighter...much tighter and are very cheap.
The PCV hose is telling you something important. At normal idle...the PCV valve should only open and bleed gased past it occasionally.....not constantly.
IF...when you pull the hose off the idle rises.......that is normal....as you are venting air to the plenum through the hose and that tells the MPS to give you more fuel...while simultaneously giving you lots more airthrough the hose. It is the equivalent of opening the throttle.
BUT....if you clamp your thumb over the end of the hose and the idle drops LOWER than it was with the hose connected.......that is not normal....and means that the PCV is leaking...or operating erratically.
I would do the modification I suggested. You can take a 13mm plastic marble available from a florist. Yes...a flower shop. They use them in vases of dried flowers. Drill maybe a 2mm hole in it to start with. Put it on an allen wrench to keep it aligned....push it into the hose about an inch. Then connect teh hose and re-set the idle and see how this does.
Eventually you will need to set the MPS...but get everything else right first. Ray
It is worth it to replace all of the fuel lines. The first 411 i ever owned...it took me forever to find that I had several leaking injectors. Thats because teh pressure leaked back and the fuel evaporated off due to hewat before I could get out of the car and go back and check.
Course...I was in high school and young and stupid so it never occoured to me to have someone help me
. The same can happen with fuel lines.CIS stands for Continuous injection system. It came on rabbits, Jettas and sirroccos as well as Volvos, Saabs and Mercedes. Just ask for seals from any early 80's rabbit, Golf or Jetta. They fit tighter...much tighter and are very cheap.
The PCV hose is telling you something important. At normal idle...the PCV valve should only open and bleed gased past it occasionally.....not constantly.
IF...when you pull the hose off the idle rises.......that is normal....as you are venting air to the plenum through the hose and that tells the MPS to give you more fuel...while simultaneously giving you lots more airthrough the hose. It is the equivalent of opening the throttle.
BUT....if you clamp your thumb over the end of the hose and the idle drops LOWER than it was with the hose connected.......that is not normal....and means that the PCV is leaking...or operating erratically.
I would do the modification I suggested. You can take a 13mm plastic marble available from a florist. Yes...a flower shop. They use them in vases of dried flowers. Drill maybe a 2mm hole in it to start with. Put it on an allen wrench to keep it aligned....push it into the hose about an inch. Then connect teh hose and re-set the idle and see how this does.
Eventually you will need to set the MPS...but get everything else right first. Ray
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SureFit Travis
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm
Okay, next question: Is it just because my car was originally bought in California that it has this PCV system, or did most type-4's of this vintage have them?
Reason why I ask is because I tried calling a few parts places, and they didn't show a PCV valve for this vehicle (VW wouldn't even acknowledge it as a valid part number, which is 022 115 542). About the only place that even showed it as a valid part was Pelican Parts, but even though their website shows it as available, the idiot I spoke to today said they had no stock. And what a gong show it was trying to get through to them today........
What did VW do to ventilate the engine case prior to the PCV loop, and can I change my engine to this method? It's not that I don't want to try the 13mm ball idea, I was just curious if this PCV system was even necessary. I'm always looking for options.
Oh.....and how about them heater-hoses??? Any ideas where to get'em?
Travis
Reason why I ask is because I tried calling a few parts places, and they didn't show a PCV valve for this vehicle (VW wouldn't even acknowledge it as a valid part number, which is 022 115 542). About the only place that even showed it as a valid part was Pelican Parts, but even though their website shows it as available, the idiot I spoke to today said they had no stock. And what a gong show it was trying to get through to them today........
What did VW do to ventilate the engine case prior to the PCV loop, and can I change my engine to this method? It's not that I don't want to try the 13mm ball idea, I was just curious if this PCV system was even necessary. I'm always looking for options.
Oh.....and how about them heater-hoses??? Any ideas where to get'em?
Travis
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albert
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:08 pm
round air filter
hi,surfit, try ,,,autoatlenta,,,, porsche parts dealer ,,,with good information on the 1,7 motor ,,,albert
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
Ray's system for crankcase ventilation is an okay idea, at least it gives some positive ventilation (clean air flow through the crankcase). The various VW systems outside of the original 411/412 do not give any positive flow, they just vent off the blowby. I have the stock PCV system on my 411, but on my van I use a system that takes air from the fan and blows it through a filter and orifice into the crankcase. It operates just backwards of Ray's system but gives the same net result, low humidity air in the crankcase and cleaner oil as a result.