Hi-perf Rod's suitable for 24mm WBX wrist pin

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:46 am

Sorry, spoken for already.
try
http://motors.search.ebay.com/search/se ... p=1&fsoo=1

Post by **Piledriver** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:38 am

marcotheturbosteamengine wrote:i cant see what all the fuss is about just use the stock rod, and put some arp bolts in them, i would rather use a 20year old german part, than a brand new chinese part

and then use stateside for the machining.
you guys are of your rockers

The stock rods are a known weak part on the WBX, the big ends go out of round at high mileage on stock motors.. The 1010 forging (IIRC) doesn't cut it.

A set of lighter, stronger, CrMo rods with 3/8" ARP2000 bolts run $89. I don't think anyone has ever been able to say anything bad about the Chinese forgings.. Perhaps the machining can vary (which is why most places do that in-house, SCAT, Eagle.. etc), but the forgings themselves are typically excellent.

The (lesser quality, smaller, heavier) ARP 9mm stock replacements (only available in std ARP 8740(?), not ARP2000 or better) cost ~$97-$140, depending on who has them when you need them.

Unless your shop is raping you, the Unitechs will easily cost less than rebuilding a set of stock rods + ARP bolts. Maybe less than with stock bolts...

My EMW 2.0 Hbeams small end bushing is paper thin, if that. If it wasn't for the color difference, I'd swear there wasn't even a bushing there. I had to look, repeatedly. I still can't measure the thickness, or see a bushing from the side.

If the std T1 bushing is 26mm in dia, that would leave 1mm all around, which is apparently almost 1mm more than is required.

Oh, I'll be finding out for sure in a week or 2, the Busagain finally spun a bearing at 275K miles, finally building up the spare shortblock.

marcotheturbosteamengine · Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:06 am

Piledriver wrote:
The stock rods are a known weak part on the WBX, the big ends go out of round at high mileage on stock motors.. The 1010 forging (IIRC) doesn't cut it.

A set of lighter, stronger, CrMo rods with 3/8" ARP2000 bolts run $89. I don't think anyone has ever been able to say anything bad about the Chinese forgings.. Perhaps the machining can vary (which is why most places do that in-house, SCAT, Eagle.. etc), but the forgings themselves are typically excellent.

The (lesser quality, smaller, heavier) ARP 9mm stock replacements (only available in std ARP 8740(?), not ARP2000 or better) cost ~$97-$140, depending on who has them when you need them.

Unless your shop is raping you, the Unitechs will easily cost less than rebuilding a set of stock rods + ARP bolts. Maybe less than with stock bolts...

My EMW 2.0 Hbeams small end bushing is paper thin, if that. If it wasn't for the color difference, I'd swear there wasn't even a bushing there. I had to look, repeatedly. I still can't measure the thickness, or see a bushing from the side.

If the std T1 bushing is 26mm in dia, that would leave 1mm all around, which is apparently almost 1mm more than is required.

Oh, I'll be finding out for sure in a week or 2, the Busagain finally spun a bearing at 275K miles, finally building up the spare shortblock.

The stock wbx rods are not week, the big end goes out of round when the stock cranked engine is over reved(flexing), or it has oil starvation(week oil pump/preasure)and spins a barring, or the bolts streched(2.1 rods over reving again)
most of the time the poor wbx is beaten up all its life with no servicing, and people blame the "week"rods!
i would love to see 100,000mile unitech rod in a wasser after the abuse the common brick layer gives it, you would probaly see it hanging out of the block in 20,000miles

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:08 am

could'nt agree more Marco

Post by **Piledriver** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:19 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree, Marco.

Staying in one piece at rediculous power for a few thousand miles != staying in spec for 300K.

I have an automatic, and that can ~guarantee the motor has never seen over 5K RPM in its life, even at WOT merging on the freeway.

It HAS had marginal oil pressure since I got it at 207K, as the big ends were surely ovaled out, which is what kills these engines most of the time assuming they are maintained properly otherwise.

Second owner, have all records, always ran syn oil.

The rods usually kill them much earlier.
(They are also usually on manual transmissions, I'm sure there's a correlation there)

I'm going to give some 4130 Chromemoly rods with 3/8" ARP2000 bolts a shot.

marcotheturbosteamengine · Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:43 pm

Piledriver wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree, Marco.

Staying in one piece at rediculous power for a few thousand miles != staying in spec for 300K.

I have an automatic, and that can ~guarantee the motor has never seen over 5K RPM in its life, even at WOT merging on the freeway.

It HAS had marginal oil pressure since I got it at 207K, as the big ends were surely ovaled out, which is what kills these engines most of the time assuming they are maintained properly otherwise.

Second owner, have all records, always ran syn oil.

The rods usually kill them much earlier.
(They are also usually on manual transmissions, I'm sure there's a correlation there)

I'm going to give some 4130 Chromemoly rods with 3/8" ARP2000 bolts a shot.

the wbx motor was simply not designed for more than around 100k before a rebuild is necessary, and then people do a "topend" rebuild because it stops the motor overheating,stops leaking water gaskets and gets the motor back on the road, and ofcourse its cheaper than compleat rebuild!

that is exataly what i mean, you had oil presure problems at 207k but still drove is untill 270k!!!bang bang bang! "oh its needs a rebuild" it needed a rebuild at 207k when it had low oil presure, the barrings had worn out alowing to much oil past the barrings, the oil pump couldent keep up with the extra flow needed to maintain presure, the barrings continued to ware untill there is too much clearance between the barring and the crank, and small amout of banging acures witch you cant hear, the only banging you can hear is when the barring eventualy fails.

the 4130 Chromemoly rods with 3/8" ARP2000 bolts are fine, but the proplem its not the rod, its the barrings and oil system.

99.9% of the time number 3 rod barring fails because its the ferthest/last/longest oil galary and the first to starve of oil.

iv found this to be true in stock and modified wbx.

joop · Post by **joop** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:04 am

Staying in one piece at rediculous power for a few thousand miles != staying in spec for 300K.

My experience is the other way around... When a car and/or bike is autobahn proof for hours you can race it also! (here in europa)
I can imagine it's like you discribed in the US. The fact is that the most US build cars with auto transmissions will break the autotrans on our highways (engines too)

I am a big fan of two strokes

(kawa triples), jetting those things for street (where the throttle is on the same position for a long time) is very important, otherwise I will start getting broke

For example: my dragbike runs 1:100 oil/fuel ratio (it will hang a piston on the road) where my street bike can not do without less than 1:50
When a car is only used around town (even at high speeds) It will have to prove itself on the autobahn.
When my cars/bikes stay together during trips trough europa, I won't be facing oiling and cooling problems on the track.

Here a low pressure pic

(the upper bearing from an engine bought in germany, the lower from my T3 driven with a low oil level...)

most of the time the poor wbx is beaten up all its life with no servicing, and people blame the "week"rods!

when I worked in a MAN/VW garage, many vanagons came in with very little oil or skipped a service or two. It where those cars that loose their rods

fastback · Post by **fastback** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:45 pm

here's a pic of a WBX engine and rod ( i call it the "V-Beam")that i openend after a engine failure.. hehe go figure.

I think that the quality of the steel must be good since the rod did not snap but only got bent like this??
Tha cam was also broken in many parts.

Post by **Piledriver** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:40 am

killer_15146 wrote:

Are those the CB I-beams mentioned earlier?

They have a lot more meat on the small end than my EMW 2.0 H-Beams...

killer_15146 · Post by **killer_15146** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:02 am

Piledriver wrote:
killer_15146 wrote: Are those the CB I-beams mentioned earlier?

They have a lot more meat on the small end than my EMW 2.0 H-Beams...

nope those are Scat H-beams, don't know if they'll do the job yet as I still haven't fired up the engine... but they should be ok

akciddento · Post by **akciddento** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:11 pm

killer_15146 wrote:
Piledriver wrote:
killer_15146 wrote: Are those the CB I-beams mentioned earlier?

They have a lot more meat on the small end than my EMW 2.0 H-Beams...
nope those are Scat H-beams, don't know if they'll do the job yet as I still haven't fired up the engine... but they should be ok

???

killer - these are scat h beams....

???

Post by **Piledriver** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:08 pm

The ones in the previously referenced pic sure look like I-Beams to me

(So, just to confirm, those are SCAT I-Beams, not the CB ones?)

As to Accidentos H-Beams... Nice.

You have much more rod bushing than my 2.0 EMW rods.

CIP1 has a nice pic of the CB UniTech+ rods small end...
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C13%2D8340

Looks like LOTS more meat for a 24mm pin.

I'm trying to find these with ARP2000 bolts (without spending too much more).

killer_15146 · Post by **killer_15146** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:01 am

of course I meant I-beams

Post by **Piledriver** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:40 pm

Found a fellow who sells what APPEAR to be the CB Unitech+ rods for $99.95 (The ones with 3/8" bolts etc)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... &rd=1&rd=1

Also has Berg-style bronze bushed, forced oiling 1.25 and 1.4 ratio rockers w/shafts for $90. Come w/CrMo studs. (EMPI ones?)
I don't recall ever seeing 1.25s in that style, look nice.(See his store)

Note these will need hard tip valves or lash caps, not included.

I also actually spoke to a body at Web Camshafts the other day, very nice helpful folk if you can actually get thru.

Looks like they _may_ be able do give me a regrind of the stock cam for the profile I want if I use 1.25 rockers.
(86b/119, 120 LC, 7 degree retard (Miller Cycle timing) T4 lobe profile/ramps to match the T4 lifters in the WBX)

Failing that, it can go on a std T1 cam blank for the usual price.

Unkl Ian · Post by **Unkl Ian** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:10 pm

Rolf wrote: ....and we will recieve CB Performance rods within a few days
and then I'll be able to determine if there is enough material in
the small end of the rod to machine it for a larger 24 mm bushing.

I'll return with more info when I get the rods and done a few measurement

/R

Rolf: what happened with the CB rods ?