VW paint question??

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:17 pm

Hey Guys, was talking about paint with Ubercrap when I picked up the engine from him and he heard of a paint that can be hand painted?? I was wondering if our cars can be painted over with the new two stage paints or do you need to use a one stage paint method? Is it a primer issue? Thx Bill

wildthings · Post by **wildthings** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:34 pm

Here's one: http://www.magnetpaints.com/

Here's another: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:04 am

Oh yeah, I was going to PM you the link to this thread, where I learned all about it. Get ready for some heavy duty reading on the moparts board linked on the first page, there are over 100 pages of posts there!

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=104347

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:04 pm

Thanks Wildthings and Ubercrap for the links! Lots to read! But that Magnet primers and paints look sweet! Bill

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Mon May 14, 2007 9:49 pm

Hey Guys, so what do you think of the hand painting issue?? It just seems like some thing you could do with two stage paints by thinning or just using a HVLP DIY.... They all seem to have worked as hard as a regular paint job with multiple coats and sanding and buffing!! I would think that going with DIY body work and a heavy primer sealer coat and mulitple two stage color base and sanding and clear seemed as much work... But I haven't done but the old single stage paint jobs... Bill

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:06 pm

Actually...I can be done and look gorgeous even with regular car paint. I have seen it done...but it can be tedious. The real key thatIcan see...is making sure that the first coat down is prepped as well as a vehcile you would professionallyspray. The first coast has to stick. After that, layer it on.
The tedious part..comes from that if you want it the smoothest...wet sand each coat smooth, then prep and recoat....sand etc. Then polish when its dry.
I pretty close to just doing this to my daily driver rabbit vert. Ray

wildthings · Post by **wildthings** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:22 pm

I have seen yachts that were hand painted with two part polyurethanes that looked good ten years down the road. Don't know what brands were used, but you need a special thinner to give enough time for any marks to even themselves out.

hoodsy · Post by **hoodsy** » Wed May 16, 2007 4:53 pm

I have done alot of painting i.e. Cars, yachts etc. yes you can get a really good result by hand, but you should use a paint leveling additive in the paint, this will allow the paint to level itself and hide any brush strokes, roll marks etc. you could also do some research on a teqnique called tip and roll. It takes two people, but basically one person rolls and another comes behind and very carefully brushes out roll marks with the tip of a brush. surface prep is everything in a good paint job, spend the most time on this. if you are unsure of the smoothness of your surface spray it lightly with a black guide coAT, this will allow you to see any imperfections, before you do your actual paint. regular alkyloyd paints will only last a couple of years before they fade, and if you use a single part paint you can never apply a two part paint over top. single stage acrylic paints will last about 5 years, lacquer will last alittle longer. base clear type paint jobs, where the base is either acrylic or laquer and the clear is polyurathane will last about 9-10 years. but the best and longest lasting paint is a true urathane paint, it will hold its luster for up to 20 years. the type of paint that yachts use is urathane. there is a company called endura in alberta canada that makes a beautiful two part urathane that can be brushed rolled or sprayed, it flows really well and is very resonably priced at about $150.00 cdn a gallon. one thing to know about urathanes is they contain a isocyanide catalyst and should only be applied with a fresh air system as your regular carcoal type mask filter will not filter these. for economy and ease for a top coat I would suggest using a single stage Acrylic followed by several coats of polyurathane clear, and when it is tottally cured, not just dry but actually cured which will take a couple of weeks without baking it, I would wet sand it starting with 1000 grit and finishing with 2000. then cut polish with gradually finer polish . and you will have a beautiful paint that will have a nice wet look. but Prep work is the key above all else.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:47 am

So we can only go with a single stage paint if we have the original paint??
Can we apply a primer/sealer and use a two stage paint? I like the two stage so you can apply a bunch of color coats and get to sand down to get a good base look....bill

hoodsy · Post by **hoodsy** » Sun May 20, 2007 1:07 pm

hi Bill, what I mean by a single part paint, and a two part paint is a single part paint does not require a added catalyst, or reducer in order to harden i.e. typical house paint, tremclad etc. a two part paint requires the addition of some form of catalyst in order to harden i.e. practically all automotive paints. a single stage paint can be two part, it just does not require a clear coat in order to achieve a gloss finish, a two stage paint job requires a clear coat over a base coat to give a proper finish gloss. the original factory paint on a 412 in a two stage laquer finish. so that being said, you can pretty much paint over it with what ever paint you would like. I would suggest using a high build primer to start, because you top coat will adhere much better, then wet sand when it is dry, but if you wet sand you will want to scuff the surface after will a red scotch brite pador equivalent , say about 400 grit sand paper. the reason for this is that if you just wet sand and go to fine on thgrit you can actually make the surface too smooth for your paint to bond to. after that is done lay on your color coat, folowed by your clear coat. you can sand and scuff between these coats if you like but it is not necessary if you put them on within the manufacturers recoat times, if you decide to paint wet on wet,i.e. clear right after the color base make sure the paints you are using are compatable to do so, i.e. made with the same base solvent. finally after your paint is thoroughly dry usually a couple of weeks, although it will seem dry it will not have truely cured for a couple of weeks than wet sand the clear to remove any orange peel, and follow it with some polishing etc. if you take your time anybody can get a great paint job. and if you want a deep gloss you will difinately want too follow up what ever color coat you using with a clear coat, this is a two stage paint job, and if you are using a clear coat you can also buy pearl additive to put in the clear to give you a pearl effect. if your into that king of thing. anyway I hope this info helps at all. Good luck with it.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:35 pm

Thx Hoodsy for some more great info!! So our cars were originally a Laquer finish!? I remember friends using laquer for their cycle and cars and being great for being able to buff it out and getting a great finish!
I can see myself doing the body work and primer and think I would have to do the paint in sections not a one shot deal! I have alot more respect now for how great a job the guys who painted my old 412 in the garage at their gas station!! But their Father could build a hand made monster chain crank grill while they did my clutch! I guess that's what a great truck welder/machinist can do!! Bill

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:08 pm

BTW, little T4 trivia...I've heard from a reliable source that our 411/412's are the first mass-serial-production (not supercar, not hand-assembled) car with two-stage paint (base and clear). IG Farben worked with VW to develop a paint system they could use on the line. Anyone know for sure?