Wheel wobble

[wshawn]

Hi

my 412 has a horrible wobbly steering wheel at the 40mph (ish) mark.

I originally thought that it may be down to the tyres being passed it, the tyre walls had all cracked.

I have changed all the tyres and had them balanced, the first time the car was almost undrivable so took it back and complained and a more experienced fitter had a go at the balancing. It improved but it is still there.

Have now tried rebalancing all the wheels at a different tyre centre and changing the front over for the rear wheels and it still has a wobble.

If I now assume the wheels are done correctly then follow the advice of the Haynes manual, I need to get the wheel alignment checked along with the castor angle, then the next logical step is to check the steering linkage/suspension but which part is it likely to be? I don't know if it makes a difference but mine is a right hand drive UK version and it is running nonstock alloy wheels (sorry don't know which they are) fitted with 165R15 tyres.

[david58]

If I now assume the wheels are done correctly then follow the advice of the Haynes manual, I need to get the wheel alignment checked along with the castor angle, then the next logical step is to check the steering linkage/suspension but which part is it likely to be? I don't know if it makes a difference but mine is a right hand drive UK version and it is running nonstock alloy wheels (sorry don't know which they are) fitted with 165R15 tyres.

Don't assume anything. First off wheel balancing technologies used today are not compatible with our cars. Back in the day the wheel assembly was balanced on the car, not off the car. The balancing machines today assume everything on the car is balanced. Back in the day it wasn't, so if you had a flat you might have a vibration or wobble, if you didn't rebalance the rotating assembly. Now the first things to do are check for worn parts, and wheel run out. I could balance semi truck tires before I was 10 with no help from my Dad, that was 40 years ago. I can tell you how to balance your own tires with a weight hammer and some weights. The front ones you can do by yourself, oh you will need a jack and safety stands and a helper to do the rear ones.

[raygreenwood]

I have written volumes about this. There are numerous things to check.
Starting at the wheels.....(1) if the car has sat stationary for more han about two years, it is common for the wheels to have "spread" spots. This can only be seen when the tire is off and the wheel is rotated. What happens is that the rims spread just a few mm. It gives an up and down oscillation that feels like imbalance....but cannot be corrected by balance. (2) if the tires on these wheels are the tires that have been sitting still....throw them away. They get permanent flat spots within a year or so. (3) Balance......if any tire needs more than about 1.5 oz of weight in one spot...it must be split in half and put on both the inside and outside rim.

Now....running gear:
(1) Your idler arm bushing is shot...period. All of them are. It is the same bushing used on a superbeetle....but....in the last year or the superbeetle they woke up and made a solid bronze bushing. Major improvement. The probleem is that the rubber on the original bushing is too soft and causes misalignment during cornering, breaks down within 20-30K miles...and at $45 is not worth the money. You can press yours out and have one made of bronze at any machine shop for roughly the same cost if you can't find a bronze one. I think several people may have put the dimensions online....but you can also figure them out. Measure the empty bore of the idler bracket for an OD....figure .001".022" interference fit cold since the bracket is aluminum. Measure the pin/bolt to get the inner bore diameter. Figure aout .002" clearance. Put in a grease fitting drilled all the way through the bronze from the outside once it had been pressed into the aluminum housing. Do not worry about the flange. Just use bronze thrust washers.
(2) Your centerlink is usually shot as well. It had nylon packings....which absorb water, swell and disintegrate in about 6 years. Some of these are still available new. The play in it cannot be seen or measured unless you remove it. This can also be rebuilt at home with nothing but some files and a dreme tool....I can e-mail you pictures. I repacked mine with all bronze packings....for about $12 in parts using thrust washers. I snap ringed it back together and it is superb.
(3) Tie-rod ends
(4) Radius arm centering rings. Unavailable but can be made really cheap from delrin bushing stock.

(5) strust and strut bushings....lots of info here....but wait until you look at the rest before we get into this. Ray

[raygreenwood]

Oh....and make sure the gas tank is at least half full during alignment. When they do the turning castor check where they slightly lift the front end....tell them not to do that. The front end is very light on these cars...and there is no need to lift it to turn the tire on the pad. It messes up the camber reading when they do that.

Also....your castor adjustment is not capable as it came from the factory....of addng or subtracting castor. It is only capable of splitting the difference from side to side as the subframe pivots.

The Castor MUST be set first as it affects camber. Also...unless they were added there is no camber adjustment. The trick for that is to slot the inside pivots for the control arms. Some very few cars cames with thsi adjustment or so I am told.

Chances are...your problem has nothing to do with alignment. Its worn parts. Ray

[wshawn]

Thanks for the reply.

Gives me something to look for tomorrow, so long as it stays dry that is

I have also had it suggested that the wobble/vibration may have something to do with the wheels not being hub-centric and as such they may not be centralised on the hub nuts right. Is this feasible?

[wshawn]

Managed to have a good look at the front end today and much to my surprise it looks like many of the bushes have been changed fairly recently.

It looks a bit hap-hazard as the tie rod end ball joints are all obviously very sloppy, all four of them so it seems a bit strange to have replaced the other harder bits ?

Managed to check the steering ball joints by following the Haynes manual, and if I have done it right there is very little play in them as well. That is good.

Shall add the tie rod end ball joints to the shopping list and once everything is here shall spend a day sorting it out.

[raygreenwood]

If your ball joints are good...do the grease fitting mod and possibly replace the boots to keep them that way. They are rare....and without them you don't drive. Ray

[wshawn]

Sounds like sound advice about the ball joints.

Do you have any pictures on this mod as they speak a thousand words (or so the saying goes )?

[plumcrazee]

i have the exact same problem with mine i am running 7.5 wide 17s with 205 50s on when i fist had the car and fitted the wheels it was fine but while i was checking the rest i notced the idler arm had a lot of play up and down along the shaft. i have changed this with a second hand unit with no play at all and good movement. since then i have had the problem 35-43 ish

i have had the wheels balanced and all was good for a bit but then has come back took it back to and had the wheels checked again and some waits had fell off had them replaced but still there.


will have to get under and have a good check at it all



wshawn nice to see some other uk 412 drivers

[wshawn]

wshawn nice to see some other uk 412 drivers

Bit thin on the ground aen't we?

Still I love the car, just need to sort out a few of the teething problems I always seem to inherit when I buy a car...comes from letting my heart rule my head a bit too much I think

[raygreenwood]

I have a joint that is out of the car with the grease fitting mod installed. I will e-mail some pictures by tuesday.....you can post if you wish. Ray

[wshawn]

I have a joint that is out of the car with the grease fitting mod installed. I will e-mail some pictures by tuesday.....you can post if you wish. Ray

Thanks Ray, do you have my e-mail address or do I need to PM it to you?

[raygreenwood]

PM it to me please! ray

[MattKab]

I have done Ray's grease nipple mod, very simple and effective. Nice to see most of that old grease displaced with the new EP (extreme pressure) grease.

The ball joint has a ~5mm (drain?) hole which can easily be tapped for a straight, stubby 1/4" grease fitting. No need to drill it first!

The rubber boots can be swapped for Ford Transit track-rod end boots, exacto fit!

Hope this helps,

Matt

[wshawn]

The ball joint has a ~5mm (drain?) hole which can easily be tapped for a straight, stubby 1/4" grease fitting. No need to drill it first!

The rubber boots can be swapped for Ford Transit track-rod end boots, exacto fit!

Hope this helps,

Matt

Cheers Matt

I shall have a look at the spare ball joints tomorrow and get some grease nipples sorted.

Still waiting for some other bits and bobs to arrive so haven't made any progress on sorting the wobble yet. Although I shall borrow my wifes Beetle wheels in the morning just to prove to myself that it is not the wheels at fault on my car