Tie rod ends...do I need cranked ones?

wshawn · Post by **wshawn** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:02 am

Hello once again from not so sunny England

It was dry enough at the weekend to investigate the wheel wobble on my 412, I've had the wheels balanced a couple of times now and I'm confident that they are done correctly. The fitters have all commented on the fact the wheels don't seem to have a hub to centralise on so blame the fact the wheels rely on the wheel nuts to be centralised, is this a known problem or am I being fobbed off?

Back to my original question now.

Having crawled around under the car yesterday it would appear that the previous owner has replaced most of the bushes and the steering damper fairly recently before I acquired the car however the tie rod end balljoints all seem to have too much play in them with perished boots as well. These all need to be changed and reading back on here regarding this I found Ray comment-

"Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject:

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I have found the bent tie rod ends to be totally not necessary. They make no difference in the lifespan or steering ability. Its nice to stay original....but not worth the search time I spent on those items. Ray"

If this is the case which tie rod ends do I need to find, what I mean is ,which tie rod ends from what other car will substitute the cranked inner ones?

Can't wait for the holiday period to be over now so I can get on and find the bits I need to get the car back on the road...

Shawn.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:27 am

I will have to consulgt my little black book for this later....but in general there are three different tie rod end part #'s for the stock 411/412. The inners result in two part #'s with the outers beng the same part #. I think the inners can come from a type 3 and the outers may be a type part #. Bear with me on this. I will consult my records.

As for the ball joints. You will need to search and buy what you can find....and pay whatever. They are rare. I saw some person on e-bay selling one a little while back with a buy it now price of $125....thats rediculous...but it could happen.

That being said....if you an find a pair and do the grease fitting modification it will last forever.

OK. when you remove your old ball joints...do not discard them. One of my old projects that is on the back burner...is a method to rebuild tehse joints. It can be done with not too much difficulty. As long as they are not rusted....a lot can be done.

The issues with the stock ball joints are that the spring behind the cup is weak. If you put stiffer struts on....or if you drve too far with the original ones shot....the shock can crack the spring. Ray

wshawn · Post by **wshawn** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:02 am

Thanks for the speedy response once again Ray.

I think I may have confused things a bit by adding the words ball joints after tie rod end

. The tie rod end is a ball joint, so maybe I didn't need to say that bit, sorry! I didn't mean the main ball joint on the bottom of the strut as they are fine.

I seem to be fortunate enough to have a couple of the steering ball joints spare within the box of bits that came with the car so shall look into adding the grease nipples to the spare ones to star with.

If you can find the info on which tie rod ends are compatible it would be greatly appreciated as I fear the cranked ones may be like rocking horse poo to find

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:10 pm

The big difference in the tie rod ends is that they have left or right threads. The pin is the same as type 1 and 3...same taper. The issue is simply making sure that you have the correct thread pitch and correct thread direction. There are numerous joints that fit from numerous vehicles. Ray

wshawn · Post by **wshawn** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:29 am

So in summary,

I can use the same tie rod ends that are fitted to a Type 1 so long as I match the correct sides,

the cranked ones fitted to the 412 are not needed?

This leads me to stupid question of-

why did they fit cranked ones to the 412's in the first place?

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:27 am

It appears that they used the cranked rods because the suspension at full lock can have quite an acute angle. When I could not get the correct joints....I found some that were not cranked that worked. I turned it side to side and found that even at full lock, the joints do not bottom out against the edge of the joint case. I think they were worried about the joint bottoming out and impairing steering. I have driven on non-craked joints for at least a decade with no issues.

Sorry I have not had time for part #'s but will get them today. I think at least one of the inner joints I used was a type 3 part #. Ray

Jan Peter de geus · Post by **Jan Peter de geus** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:32 am

There are 2 sets of tie rod ends on eBay right now, if you still need them. As far as I can see on the picture they each contain a straight and a bent version, at least that was the case with an exact similar pair I bought some time ago. Also from the QH brand. Here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... :IT&ih=007
Just for completeness, here are the VW part numbers:
311 415 811C, left thread, straight (outer tie rod ends)
311 415 818B, right tread, 9º angled (inner tie rod ends)

You can also buy the bent tie rod ends from Axel Stauber (http://www.volkswarenhaus.de/)

wshawn · Post by **wshawn** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:39 am

Thanks for the e-bay link but I have already got some on order...typical!

Hopefully they should be in the next box of bits I am waiting for along with some new NOS calipers with pads, and some vacuum air hose for the injection set up.

In todays box of bits I recieved a pair of rear shocks, heater cables and a gear stick guide bush. I have fitted the guide bush and can now find the gears a tad easier and I have half fitted the heater cables just need to fix them to the control flaps under the car (I can then release the wire that currently holds these flaps permently open).

Finally the snag list is starting to get smaller

Jan Peter de geus · Post by **Jan Peter de geus** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:01 am

Where did you find the heater cables and the gear stick guide bush if I may ask so? Thanks

wshawn · Post by **wshawn** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:34 am

I found them at a company called Follett Motors based in St Albans, England. They say they can ship world wide and have their catologue available in several languages as well.

http://www.follettmotors.com/en/gear-sh ... -3-5a.html

well worth a look around their catalogue as they have a variety of NOS parts for the Type 4 and I didn't think they were badly priced either