Kubelmann vwfleh chat thread
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vwfleh
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:01 am
Kubelmann vwfleh chat thread
How about a Thing thread that will start tonight and build through the Spring and Summer and end with a picture of Kubelmann and vwfleh at the Bandimere show in Denver. I will need to finish my Thing and drive it to Denver and he will have to have a problem free day to make it to the show also.
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Kubelmann
- Posts: 1380
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:01 am
I AM IN!!!!!! Lets as (Larry the Cable Guy says) Git er dun. How about a Saturday drive up Pikes Peak prior to the show? Check out Hot VW Dec 2007. WE had the pre show but the Pikes Peak Classic did not happen. I want to bring it back. How many Thing (or other VW/Porsche) owners can show up or even comment on their hope or wish that they could? I can provide support for camping/motel/barbecue etc... Lets do something fun..
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Colorider181
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:43 pm
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vwfleh
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:01 am
Have you heard of anything happening on Saturday? 2007 we didn't drive down to Colorado Springs area. We drove around Denver, Bear Creek Canyon, I think it was called. Then went to the Buck Snort for a late lunch and back to New Vintage for their party. We usually bring 6 - 10 cars out and go out in different groups to things on Saturday.
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Kubelmann
- Posts: 1380
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:01 am
The Bandimere Bug in is Sunday Aug 3 this year. I would like to try and have a get together and revive the Pikes Peak Classic for a cruise up to the top of Pikes Peak. We can come up with motels and camping info as well as some kind of a bar b que Last year we did a morning meet at OE Vee Dub in Lake George. I will contact the VW club in Colorado Springs along with the Bus club to try and get an event going. It sure would be great to get a Thing RoMTOC group together. Lets Git er done.
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Kubelmann
- Posts: 1380
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:01 am
All of my ac VWS run 5x130 Porsche lug patterns with 4 wheel disc brakes see how below:
Stock VW/Porsche parts can be used to create a low cost, high performance 4 wheel disc brake conversion system for your Thing or other type one VW.
Use '67-'74 Ghia front disc brakes parts for your front brake conversion. Then use 944 Porsche rear disc brakes. Get your wheels first. The two lowest cost options are 4 x 130 x 15 wheels (Late VW) or 5 x 130 x 15 wheels (911/944 Porsche). Each conversion listed below has advantages over the next. The parts you gather for each conversion are a resource to trade/sell to get the parts for your next step in converting your Thing to the ultimate low-cost four-wheel disc brake system.
0. If you need any immediate information feel free to pmail me at: kubelmann@att.net
Also it has occurred to me that perhaps some folks do not have knowledge for the simple stuff like pulling the front or rear drums or installing rotors etc. If there is a desire for me to post point to point methods for these procedures the easy K-mann way, post those desires at the bottom of this page under comments.
Known Quality Parts Sources
Custom and Speed Parts http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/sh ... 8344021471
This is a company that is based in Germany and carries certain superior parts that are not available from any other source.
These parts include:
High quality cross drilled front rotors with 4 x 130, 5 x 130 bolt pattern or blank rotors. These are the finest quality rotors I have found.
40 mm throated intake manifolds for dual Weber or Dell carbs (very close in quality and output to the Gene Berg high performance manifolds for half the price)
There are many more very special high quality parts they offer.
Save a few $$ and order directly from their US distributor Will Pringle at www.csp-usa.com or via email at William@csp-usa.com or via phone at 626.445.0108 (He also carries the famed high quality fiberglass Thing fenders that were cast from "real" Thing fenders.) That is where OEE Vee Dub gets theirs.)
CB Performance http://www.cbperformance.com/
They sell the lugs bolts and Porsche style nuts as well as a number of wheel adapters and the emergency brake cable end adpaters needed for the 944 rear brake conversion.
Larry's Off-Road Center http://www.larrysoffroad.com/
Order their free catalog online. Then cruise their catalog and call to make an order. The catalog is filled with all the parts you will need. Not to mention the fact that they have much lower prices than CB Performance for the identical parts and service. Larry's also had the hard to find 4 x 130 to 5 x 130 (for front)wheel adapter and the 5 x 205 to 4 x 130 (for rear) adapters You can also call them toll free at 1 800 375-4546 and order parts or a catalog or just to ask for the parts you need. Very friendly. A family owned business.
Conversion One
This will give you front disc brakes and rear drum brakes with a 4 x 130 lug pattern and 15" wheels (late Bug/Ghia)
This conversion can be completed easily in an afternoon.
Parts required
One set of 4 x 130 x 15 wheels and tires.
Numerous low cost types available.
Max tire size is 205 x 75 x 15 but 195 x 65 x 15 will fill the space nicely.
Front Ghia rotors Front Ghia calipers Inner bearing seal NAPA part number 15805 40mm x 52mm x 7 mm
The original Thing caliper adapters are now available for $126 including shipping via K-mann.
Optional parts
Stock 67 - 74 Ghia front rotor dust covers (modifications required)
Take your caliper mount adapters and draw the outline of the area that the caliper mounts to on the stock rotor dust cover. Make the opening a bit larger than your drawing. Use a diamond grinder, sawzall or other metal cutting tool. Remove the area of metal that you have outlined. Check to see if the adapter plate fits with a good centering on the original hole for the spindle shaft. This hole will need to be enlarged. Draw the bigger center circle using the adapter as a template pattern. Next mark where the new mounting holes will need to be drilled. Drill the new holes to 3/8" You can now take small channel lock pliers and bend the inner circle to it larger new size bite by bite. Next bolt the dust cover to the spindle sandwiching it between the spindle and the caliper adapter. Tighten the three mounting bolts. Now remove the adapter. You will have created a circular scored larger circle on the dust cover, making it easy to flex the extra material back usign small channel lock pliers back and forth until the excess metal fractures. You will end up with a fairly smooth larger center hole. You can now mount the dust cover and make minor adjustments with a round and flat file to smooth the edges of your modifications. Most of the areas that have been modified will be hidden inside by the spindle to caliper mount union.
Link to the above picture: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... _id=198139
Custom and Speed Parts Brake Dust Cover Bug/Karmann Ghia NOT 1302/1303405 595 113 (Suggested qty: 2 each)\t16.00 EUR/each http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/sh ... tnr=21345a
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts including Porsche style lug nuts.
CIP1 studs and lug bolt selection http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp? ... earch.y=15
Rear Brakes
(Two options here)
0. Retain stock Thing drums and use 5 x 205 to 4 x 130 wheel adapters
0. Change rear drums to 68 Bug drums
Optional parts
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts including Porsche style lug nuts.
Conversion Two
This will give you front disk brakes and rear drum brakes with a 5 x 130 lug pattern and 15" wheels (911/944 Porsche)
This conversion can be completed easily in an afternoon.
Parts required
1 set of 5 x 130 x 15 Porsche wheels and tires. Several types available.
For this option, get wheels prior to any other step in the process.
Depending on your contacts, these wheels can be expensive but can be purchased for around $100.
Max tire size is 205 x 75 x 15 but 195 x 65 x 15 will fill the space nicely. 5 x 130 front disc brakes only.
Front brakes
Parts required
Front rotors with 5 x 130 bolt holes or studs
CIP1 C23-501-120 - 5 X 130mm BOLT PATTERN FRONT BRAKE ROTOR 66-79 BEETLE / GHIA WITH DISC BRAKES $69.95 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... D501%2D120
Ghia calipers
The original Thing caliper adapters are now available for $126 including shipping via K-mann.
Optional parts
Front rotor dust covers (modifications required)(procedure to follow)
Custom and Speed Parts Brake Dust Cover Bug/Karmann Ghia (Suggested qty: 2 each)\t16.00 EUR/each http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/sh ... tnr=21345a
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts
CIP1 studs and lug bolt selction http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp? ... earch.y=15
Rear Brakes
(two options here)
Option One Retain stock Thing drums Use 5 x 205 to 5 x 130 wheel adapters
CIP1 wheel adapters
Low cost economy adapters $30 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... D601%2D206
Higher cost quality adapters $60 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C10%2D6710
Option Two Redrill and stud the stock rear drums to a 5 x 130 pattern.
Optional parts
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts
CIP1 studs and lug bolt selction http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp? ... earch.y=15
Conversion Three
This will give you front and rear disk brakes with a 5 x 130 lug pattern and 15" wheels (911/944 Porsche)
This conversion will take a few sessions and some planning.
Start by completing the front brake conversion listed in Conversion Two
Parts required
1 set of 5 x 130 x 15 Porsche wheels and tires. Several types available.
For this option, get wheels prior to any other step in this process. Depending on your contacts, these wheels can be expensive but can be purchased for around $100. Max tire size is 205 x 75 x 15 but 195 x 65 x 15 will fill the space nicely.
Front brakes
Front rotors with 5 x 130 bolt holes or studs
CIP1 C23-501-120 - 5 X 130mm BOLT PATTERN FRONT BRAKE ROTOR 66-79 BEETLE / GHIA WITH DISC BRAKES $69.95 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... D501%2D120
Ghia calipers
The original Thing caliper adapters are now available for $126 including shipping via K-mann.
Optional parts
Front rotor dust covers (modifications required)
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts
CIP1 studs and lug bolt selection http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp? ... earch.y=15
Complete the entire front brake conversion prior to proceeding with the rear brake conversion.
Rear Brakes
There are a number of parts combination possible when pluging in rear 944 Porsche disk brakes into a Thing. Since each installation requires different parts, I will start with parts you will need for this conversion regardless of the option you choose.
0. Parts you will need regardless of your option.
eBrake cable end adapter kit
CIP1 ebrake cable shortening ends $4.49 part number ACC-C10-2567
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C10%2D2567
Two 944 Porsche long eBrake cables
To purchase 944 brake parts, front or rear. contact me.
Options
After midyear 1985 944 Porsche went to a lighter Aluminum rear diagonal arm. This arm has some superior design elements for a Thing street car conversion. The stub axles and brakes are integral and the unit give you a nice wide rear stance.
Early 85 and back had steel diagonal arms that are significantly stronger, 1/2" longer and 1" wider per side than a Thing arm. These are great for an off-road application.
You can bolt on early 944 rear disk brakes directly onto Thing arms. If you choose this opiton you will need the 944 bolts that attach the brake backing plates that attach to the arms. They are 50 mm long rather than the Thing bolts which are 35 mm. Also the 944 bolts have thick washers that work propperly with the aluminum backing plates while the Thing bolts ahve the typical double washer system. You will also need a pair of 944 rear steel brake lines. They are very different from the Thing lines. Although they bolt directly to the Thing stock chassis brake lines. I am a big fan of stainless steel teflon lined brake lines. When I do this conversion I also replace the rubber brake lines with stainless steel lines.
Both of these options are a direct bolt on with very minor alteration. A third option is to retain the Thing arms and bolt the early 944 rear brake assembly directly to your Thing arms.
With all three of these options, modifications to Porsche eBrake cables will be required. This procedure will be listed below.
The advantage to these conversions I have listed is that there is a huge supply of the parts listed. The major parts are available at low cost if effort is taken to find them in near perfect condition for a good price. The other advantage to this set up is that he pads, seals and other parts that require replacement are commonly available for very low cost.
I currently have several ongoing sources for the parts listed in this document. My goal is to provide others with like interests a simple method for converting their brakes. If the interest exists I would enjoy putting different braking conversion "kits" together for other enthusiasts at low cost.
Stock VW/Porsche parts can be used to create a low cost, high performance 4 wheel disc brake conversion system for your Thing or other type one VW.
Use '67-'74 Ghia front disc brakes parts for your front brake conversion. Then use 944 Porsche rear disc brakes. Get your wheels first. The two lowest cost options are 4 x 130 x 15 wheels (Late VW) or 5 x 130 x 15 wheels (911/944 Porsche). Each conversion listed below has advantages over the next. The parts you gather for each conversion are a resource to trade/sell to get the parts for your next step in converting your Thing to the ultimate low-cost four-wheel disc brake system.
0. If you need any immediate information feel free to pmail me at: kubelmann@att.net
Also it has occurred to me that perhaps some folks do not have knowledge for the simple stuff like pulling the front or rear drums or installing rotors etc. If there is a desire for me to post point to point methods for these procedures the easy K-mann way, post those desires at the bottom of this page under comments.
Known Quality Parts Sources
Custom and Speed Parts http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/sh ... 8344021471
This is a company that is based in Germany and carries certain superior parts that are not available from any other source.
These parts include:
High quality cross drilled front rotors with 4 x 130, 5 x 130 bolt pattern or blank rotors. These are the finest quality rotors I have found.
40 mm throated intake manifolds for dual Weber or Dell carbs (very close in quality and output to the Gene Berg high performance manifolds for half the price)
There are many more very special high quality parts they offer.
Save a few $$ and order directly from their US distributor Will Pringle at www.csp-usa.com or via email at William@csp-usa.com or via phone at 626.445.0108 (He also carries the famed high quality fiberglass Thing fenders that were cast from "real" Thing fenders.) That is where OEE Vee Dub gets theirs.)
CB Performance http://www.cbperformance.com/
They sell the lugs bolts and Porsche style nuts as well as a number of wheel adapters and the emergency brake cable end adpaters needed for the 944 rear brake conversion.
Larry's Off-Road Center http://www.larrysoffroad.com/
Order their free catalog online. Then cruise their catalog and call to make an order. The catalog is filled with all the parts you will need. Not to mention the fact that they have much lower prices than CB Performance for the identical parts and service. Larry's also had the hard to find 4 x 130 to 5 x 130 (for front)wheel adapter and the 5 x 205 to 4 x 130 (for rear) adapters You can also call them toll free at 1 800 375-4546 and order parts or a catalog or just to ask for the parts you need. Very friendly. A family owned business.
Conversion One
This will give you front disc brakes and rear drum brakes with a 4 x 130 lug pattern and 15" wheels (late Bug/Ghia)
This conversion can be completed easily in an afternoon.
Parts required
One set of 4 x 130 x 15 wheels and tires.
Numerous low cost types available.
Max tire size is 205 x 75 x 15 but 195 x 65 x 15 will fill the space nicely.
Front Ghia rotors Front Ghia calipers Inner bearing seal NAPA part number 15805 40mm x 52mm x 7 mm
The original Thing caliper adapters are now available for $126 including shipping via K-mann.
Optional parts
Stock 67 - 74 Ghia front rotor dust covers (modifications required)
Take your caliper mount adapters and draw the outline of the area that the caliper mounts to on the stock rotor dust cover. Make the opening a bit larger than your drawing. Use a diamond grinder, sawzall or other metal cutting tool. Remove the area of metal that you have outlined. Check to see if the adapter plate fits with a good centering on the original hole for the spindle shaft. This hole will need to be enlarged. Draw the bigger center circle using the adapter as a template pattern. Next mark where the new mounting holes will need to be drilled. Drill the new holes to 3/8" You can now take small channel lock pliers and bend the inner circle to it larger new size bite by bite. Next bolt the dust cover to the spindle sandwiching it between the spindle and the caliper adapter. Tighten the three mounting bolts. Now remove the adapter. You will have created a circular scored larger circle on the dust cover, making it easy to flex the extra material back usign small channel lock pliers back and forth until the excess metal fractures. You will end up with a fairly smooth larger center hole. You can now mount the dust cover and make minor adjustments with a round and flat file to smooth the edges of your modifications. Most of the areas that have been modified will be hidden inside by the spindle to caliper mount union.
Link to the above picture: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... _id=198139
Custom and Speed Parts Brake Dust Cover Bug/Karmann Ghia NOT 1302/1303405 595 113 (Suggested qty: 2 each)\t16.00 EUR/each http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/sh ... tnr=21345a
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts including Porsche style lug nuts.
CIP1 studs and lug bolt selection http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp? ... earch.y=15
Rear Brakes
(Two options here)
0. Retain stock Thing drums and use 5 x 205 to 4 x 130 wheel adapters
0. Change rear drums to 68 Bug drums
Optional parts
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts including Porsche style lug nuts.
Conversion Two
This will give you front disk brakes and rear drum brakes with a 5 x 130 lug pattern and 15" wheels (911/944 Porsche)
This conversion can be completed easily in an afternoon.
Parts required
1 set of 5 x 130 x 15 Porsche wheels and tires. Several types available.
For this option, get wheels prior to any other step in the process.
Depending on your contacts, these wheels can be expensive but can be purchased for around $100.
Max tire size is 205 x 75 x 15 but 195 x 65 x 15 will fill the space nicely. 5 x 130 front disc brakes only.
Front brakes
Parts required
Front rotors with 5 x 130 bolt holes or studs
CIP1 C23-501-120 - 5 X 130mm BOLT PATTERN FRONT BRAKE ROTOR 66-79 BEETLE / GHIA WITH DISC BRAKES $69.95 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... D501%2D120
Ghia calipers
The original Thing caliper adapters are now available for $126 including shipping via K-mann.
Optional parts
Front rotor dust covers (modifications required)(procedure to follow)
Custom and Speed Parts Brake Dust Cover Bug/Karmann Ghia (Suggested qty: 2 each)\t16.00 EUR/each http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/sh ... tnr=21345a
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts
CIP1 studs and lug bolt selction http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp? ... earch.y=15
Rear Brakes
(two options here)
Option One Retain stock Thing drums Use 5 x 205 to 5 x 130 wheel adapters
CIP1 wheel adapters
Low cost economy adapters $30 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... D601%2D206
Higher cost quality adapters $60 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C10%2D6710
Option Two Redrill and stud the stock rear drums to a 5 x 130 pattern.
Optional parts
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts
CIP1 studs and lug bolt selction http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp? ... earch.y=15
Conversion Three
This will give you front and rear disk brakes with a 5 x 130 lug pattern and 15" wheels (911/944 Porsche)
This conversion will take a few sessions and some planning.
Start by completing the front brake conversion listed in Conversion Two
Parts required
1 set of 5 x 130 x 15 Porsche wheels and tires. Several types available.
For this option, get wheels prior to any other step in this process. Depending on your contacts, these wheels can be expensive but can be purchased for around $100. Max tire size is 205 x 75 x 15 but 195 x 65 x 15 will fill the space nicely.
Front brakes
Front rotors with 5 x 130 bolt holes or studs
CIP1 C23-501-120 - 5 X 130mm BOLT PATTERN FRONT BRAKE ROTOR 66-79 BEETLE / GHIA WITH DISC BRAKES $69.95 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... D501%2D120
Ghia calipers
The original Thing caliper adapters are now available for $126 including shipping via K-mann.
Optional parts
Front rotor dust covers (modifications required)
14 x 1.5 x 2.2" studs to replace stock lug bolts
CIP1 studs and lug bolt selection http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp? ... earch.y=15
Complete the entire front brake conversion prior to proceeding with the rear brake conversion.
Rear Brakes
There are a number of parts combination possible when pluging in rear 944 Porsche disk brakes into a Thing. Since each installation requires different parts, I will start with parts you will need for this conversion regardless of the option you choose.
0. Parts you will need regardless of your option.
eBrake cable end adapter kit
CIP1 ebrake cable shortening ends $4.49 part number ACC-C10-2567
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp ... C10%2D2567
Two 944 Porsche long eBrake cables
To purchase 944 brake parts, front or rear. contact me.
Options
After midyear 1985 944 Porsche went to a lighter Aluminum rear diagonal arm. This arm has some superior design elements for a Thing street car conversion. The stub axles and brakes are integral and the unit give you a nice wide rear stance.
Early 85 and back had steel diagonal arms that are significantly stronger, 1/2" longer and 1" wider per side than a Thing arm. These are great for an off-road application.
You can bolt on early 944 rear disk brakes directly onto Thing arms. If you choose this opiton you will need the 944 bolts that attach the brake backing plates that attach to the arms. They are 50 mm long rather than the Thing bolts which are 35 mm. Also the 944 bolts have thick washers that work propperly with the aluminum backing plates while the Thing bolts ahve the typical double washer system. You will also need a pair of 944 rear steel brake lines. They are very different from the Thing lines. Although they bolt directly to the Thing stock chassis brake lines. I am a big fan of stainless steel teflon lined brake lines. When I do this conversion I also replace the rubber brake lines with stainless steel lines.
Both of these options are a direct bolt on with very minor alteration. A third option is to retain the Thing arms and bolt the early 944 rear brake assembly directly to your Thing arms.
With all three of these options, modifications to Porsche eBrake cables will be required. This procedure will be listed below.
The advantage to these conversions I have listed is that there is a huge supply of the parts listed. The major parts are available at low cost if effort is taken to find them in near perfect condition for a good price. The other advantage to this set up is that he pads, seals and other parts that require replacement are commonly available for very low cost.
I currently have several ongoing sources for the parts listed in this document. My goal is to provide others with like interests a simple method for converting their brakes. If the interest exists I would enjoy putting different braking conversion "kits" together for other enthusiasts at low cost.