the passenger side rattles real bad. I've traced it down to the idler arm. The stud that goes though it can be turned by hand, and moves a little side to side.
How does one go about fixing something like this?
steering problem.
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Ok...there is a bunch I have written about this.
The idler arm bushing is the same part # that was later used on the superbeetle.
The stock one was rather defective. The bonded rubber was too soft. It causes handling issues and eventually wear to the center tie-rod.
In the last year of teh superbeetle ...they finally made a solid bronze bushing that just presses in like the normal one. It is superb. If you can't find one...you can have one turned at a machine shop for about $50...which is about the cost of a stock one. Huge improvement to handling. You can re-use the stock bolt/pin. They just don't wear out.
All of that being said....if your idler arm is shot....my bet is that your centerlink is as well. tehse have some defective material issues also. You can rebuild them to 100 times better than factory at home...for about $20 in comon parts as long as you have a vise and a Dremel tool.
Here is the gist. Sub-assemblies in the suspenion of the type 4 prey on each other. If you have had a bad idler for anytime...the center link bushings die too....and vica-versa. These can evetually lead downstrem to excessive wear in control arm bushings.
If your control arm bushings are shot...so are the radius arm donuts and centering rings...or vica-versa.
If your strut bushings are shot....its because teh strut cartridges are shot...and sooner orlater because of the lack of rebound control...the ball joints are shot...which can further lead to wear on centerrlink and control arm bushings.
At the age these cars are...and due to the not so great nature of some of the materials...and the very long control arm and strut lengths....which creates high leverage in the system...meaning the parts are hard on each other.........you do not want to do the front end "piecemeal". Let it seit..collect heparts...and do it all at once. Its easier.
I literally had to redo my entire front end ...three times...in 5 years because I did not know these things. Partsare scarce...do it once...with improved materials and methods...and you will be set forever.
To do the idler bushing....Jack up right side....put on jackstand. Remove wheel, remove the nut from the pin in the idler arm where it goes through the center link.
If it spins...you need to work this backward.....
look inside of the wheel well. You will see 3-4 flat vinyl plugs in the firewall on one side of the strut tower. pry them out. There are 17mm bolts underneath. Take them out. The idler arm bracket is now loose enough tthat you can lower the diler bracket a bit and get either vice grips or a 17mm allen wrench into the top of the idler pin.
Take the nut off.
Bolt the bracket back up with two bolts temporarily. Insert a tie-rod pickle fork between the centerlink and the bottom of the idler bracket. Make the slanted side of the fork against the centerlink....whack it with a 3lb sledge. "PING".....idler arm barcket is loose.
The bracket is aluminum...do not beat it up. Usually the bonded rubber is so chewed up...that you can push te hcenter pushing out,
Hold the aluminum bracket lightly in a vice....just cradled. If you can find a suitable piece of tube...you can drive the bush out with a hammer. You might need to heat it just a little.
Or..if you are patient..you can drive the sleev out with a flat faced long pin punch and a hammer. Take your time..work your way around.
Once its out...smooth any dings with the dremel.
The bronze bush needs to be made the exact length of the metal casing you drove out of teh bracket...same outer diameter..same inner diameter for the bolt as the bronze sleeve. You need to make a flat flange on the boronze part for the bottom..about 1/8" thick. You drive the new bush in from the bottom. I just squeeze it in in a vise. Then...drill a hole all the way through the bracket...into the center bore of the bronze bush. Install a 45* grease fitting so you can service the thing. Done. Ray
The idler arm bushing is the same part # that was later used on the superbeetle.
The stock one was rather defective. The bonded rubber was too soft. It causes handling issues and eventually wear to the center tie-rod.
In the last year of teh superbeetle ...they finally made a solid bronze bushing that just presses in like the normal one. It is superb. If you can't find one...you can have one turned at a machine shop for about $50...which is about the cost of a stock one. Huge improvement to handling. You can re-use the stock bolt/pin. They just don't wear out.
All of that being said....if your idler arm is shot....my bet is that your centerlink is as well. tehse have some defective material issues also. You can rebuild them to 100 times better than factory at home...for about $20 in comon parts as long as you have a vise and a Dremel tool.
Here is the gist. Sub-assemblies in the suspenion of the type 4 prey on each other. If you have had a bad idler for anytime...the center link bushings die too....and vica-versa. These can evetually lead downstrem to excessive wear in control arm bushings.
If your control arm bushings are shot...so are the radius arm donuts and centering rings...or vica-versa.
If your strut bushings are shot....its because teh strut cartridges are shot...and sooner orlater because of the lack of rebound control...the ball joints are shot...which can further lead to wear on centerrlink and control arm bushings.
At the age these cars are...and due to the not so great nature of some of the materials...and the very long control arm and strut lengths....which creates high leverage in the system...meaning the parts are hard on each other.........you do not want to do the front end "piecemeal". Let it seit..collect heparts...and do it all at once. Its easier.
I literally had to redo my entire front end ...three times...in 5 years because I did not know these things. Partsare scarce...do it once...with improved materials and methods...and you will be set forever.
To do the idler bushing....Jack up right side....put on jackstand. Remove wheel, remove the nut from the pin in the idler arm where it goes through the center link.
If it spins...you need to work this backward.....
look inside of the wheel well. You will see 3-4 flat vinyl plugs in the firewall on one side of the strut tower. pry them out. There are 17mm bolts underneath. Take them out. The idler arm bracket is now loose enough tthat you can lower the diler bracket a bit and get either vice grips or a 17mm allen wrench into the top of the idler pin.
Take the nut off.
Bolt the bracket back up with two bolts temporarily. Insert a tie-rod pickle fork between the centerlink and the bottom of the idler bracket. Make the slanted side of the fork against the centerlink....whack it with a 3lb sledge. "PING".....idler arm barcket is loose.
The bracket is aluminum...do not beat it up. Usually the bonded rubber is so chewed up...that you can push te hcenter pushing out,
Hold the aluminum bracket lightly in a vice....just cradled. If you can find a suitable piece of tube...you can drive the bush out with a hammer. You might need to heat it just a little.
Or..if you are patient..you can drive the sleev out with a flat faced long pin punch and a hammer. Take your time..work your way around.
Once its out...smooth any dings with the dremel.
The bronze bush needs to be made the exact length of the metal casing you drove out of teh bracket...same outer diameter..same inner diameter for the bolt as the bronze sleeve. You need to make a flat flange on the boronze part for the bottom..about 1/8" thick. You drive the new bush in from the bottom. I just squeeze it in in a vise. Then...drill a hole all the way through the bracket...into the center bore of the bronze bush. Install a 45* grease fitting so you can service the thing. Done. Ray
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Dang!...you did follow exactly. Looks just like mine!
the only thing I would warn about is the use of very hard urethane on the radius arm donuts. In cold weather...I actually cracked the eye on the sub frame...which does not weld well.
Picture this in your mind while looking at the nice visuals in your link
Its like this, there are two axes of motion to that radius arm or angled track control rod coming from the ball joint end of the control arm backward to the subframe.
During normal bumps and driving....the radius arm pretty much just twists in the eye of the subframe.
But when you hit something that drives the wheel backward...the original soft control arm bushings would flex...allowing the the wheel end of the control arm to move rearward slightly....this levers the radius arm inward in its socket. It also creates toe-out motion that is the root of "bump steer" Thats why there is a delrin or polyethylene centering ring in the eye between the two bushings to help keep this centered. You also get compression of that red donut. Thats why its there.
So...you can see that having Delrin or bronze control arm bushings...would negate a lot of the compression on that donut at the end of the radius arm. In all of these movements discussed to this point...having a hard red 80+ duro urthean donut...would in fact bolster soft control arm bushings...and help keep that toe out motion described above in check.
With me so far?
But there is another motion that is very destructive and can cause a hard radius arm donut to crack the subframe.
When your wheel drops into a deep hole.....and the lack of rebound control that the stock shocks had....lets your strut extend with a crash......you are now outside of the normal range of motion of the radius arm.
The disc shaped flange that is the part of the radius arm that is up against the donut.....changes angle and "pinches"/crushes the donut down to about 1/4".
You can see anddemonstrate this issue when you have front end jacked off the ground with the wheels hanging in the air. Look at the radius arm donut and flange...the donut is crushed at an angle.
Polyurethane radius arm donuts are exteremly stiff...many thosunads of psi of rebound locked up in there. Its one thing on the ground with teh car jacked up. But...if they are allowed to crush quickly like this when going over a speed bump.....especially in cold weather (which is what happened to me)...it will snap the eye socket.
I have a solution for this. Have not had a chance to try it...but there is no chance it will not work...or at least improve this problem.
The problem is that solid disc that is part of the radius arm. You will also notice that with stiff bushings..the washer bolted at the back end gets dish ouutward by all of this motion.
You have fixed about 50% of the problem with the delrin flanged bushings. There will now be little movement rearward by the control arm and wheel. But picture this.
All that disc on the radius arm really does..is make a stop...and a seat for the radius arm against the bushing. Since we have little movement in this direction any more...we only need to have a stop.
Take a grinder...and grind off that stop disc...and polish the area smooth. Go to Mcmaster Carr...and buy two 1" bronze balls. yes...they are about $25 each.
Drill a hole through each one...about .002" larger than the radius arm. Slide the bronze ball onto the arm to the point where the stop disc was. Behind it on the arm...install a split two piece shaft clamp (about $3 each) to firmly hold that bronze ball in place.
Now...you can use either urethane....or for that mater a thin 1/8"urethane pad against the eye and a delrin donut against the bronze ball.....with a radius to let the ball seat in and rotate. Since you have little rearward motion of the arm anymore due to the control arm bushings, all this donut is really needed for is to damp shock and vibration.
The ball will let it pivot smoother and will be no impediment to full arc of the suspenssion. You could also do this at the rear of the arm with a pair of bronze balls with a hole through...and a flat spot ground on one side for the bolt to seat against. Ray
the only thing I would warn about is the use of very hard urethane on the radius arm donuts. In cold weather...I actually cracked the eye on the sub frame...which does not weld well.
Picture this in your mind while looking at the nice visuals in your link
Its like this, there are two axes of motion to that radius arm or angled track control rod coming from the ball joint end of the control arm backward to the subframe.
During normal bumps and driving....the radius arm pretty much just twists in the eye of the subframe.
But when you hit something that drives the wheel backward...the original soft control arm bushings would flex...allowing the the wheel end of the control arm to move rearward slightly....this levers the radius arm inward in its socket. It also creates toe-out motion that is the root of "bump steer" Thats why there is a delrin or polyethylene centering ring in the eye between the two bushings to help keep this centered. You also get compression of that red donut. Thats why its there.
So...you can see that having Delrin or bronze control arm bushings...would negate a lot of the compression on that donut at the end of the radius arm. In all of these movements discussed to this point...having a hard red 80+ duro urthean donut...would in fact bolster soft control arm bushings...and help keep that toe out motion described above in check.
With me so far?
But there is another motion that is very destructive and can cause a hard radius arm donut to crack the subframe.
When your wheel drops into a deep hole.....and the lack of rebound control that the stock shocks had....lets your strut extend with a crash......you are now outside of the normal range of motion of the radius arm.
The disc shaped flange that is the part of the radius arm that is up against the donut.....changes angle and "pinches"/crushes the donut down to about 1/4".
You can see anddemonstrate this issue when you have front end jacked off the ground with the wheels hanging in the air. Look at the radius arm donut and flange...the donut is crushed at an angle.
Polyurethane radius arm donuts are exteremly stiff...many thosunads of psi of rebound locked up in there. Its one thing on the ground with teh car jacked up. But...if they are allowed to crush quickly like this when going over a speed bump.....especially in cold weather (which is what happened to me)...it will snap the eye socket.
I have a solution for this. Have not had a chance to try it...but there is no chance it will not work...or at least improve this problem.
The problem is that solid disc that is part of the radius arm. You will also notice that with stiff bushings..the washer bolted at the back end gets dish ouutward by all of this motion.
You have fixed about 50% of the problem with the delrin flanged bushings. There will now be little movement rearward by the control arm and wheel. But picture this.
All that disc on the radius arm really does..is make a stop...and a seat for the radius arm against the bushing. Since we have little movement in this direction any more...we only need to have a stop.
Take a grinder...and grind off that stop disc...and polish the area smooth. Go to Mcmaster Carr...and buy two 1" bronze balls. yes...they are about $25 each.
Drill a hole through each one...about .002" larger than the radius arm. Slide the bronze ball onto the arm to the point where the stop disc was. Behind it on the arm...install a split two piece shaft clamp (about $3 each) to firmly hold that bronze ball in place.
Now...you can use either urethane....or for that mater a thin 1/8"urethane pad against the eye and a delrin donut against the bronze ball.....with a radius to let the ball seat in and rotate. Since you have little rearward motion of the arm anymore due to the control arm bushings, all this donut is really needed for is to damp shock and vibration.
The ball will let it pivot smoother and will be no impediment to full arc of the suspenssion. You could also do this at the rear of the arm with a pair of bronze balls with a hole through...and a flat spot ground on one side for the bolt to seat against. Ray