What am I forgetting guys? Doing the front end:
Ball Joints
Tie Rod Ends
Brake pads
wheel bearings
wheel seals
turning the rotors
brake hoses (rubber)
Want to replace the following but can't find em online.
Strut Cartridges (the car is lowered a little...PO)
Radius rod bushings
control arm bushings
strut bearings
idler arm bushing
What am I forgetting? Anyone know where I can buy the stuff I can't find? Making it isn't an option....I'm in Iraq, the car is in Ohio.
the front suspension/steering/brakes. Need some Part #'s too
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DocLong
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:27 am
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
You will also need the centerlink and to make or buy a solid bronze idler arm bushing. If not it will just trash all the other parts on the list.
If its a 412...late...you are in good luck that you can use the late model assymettrical bolt pattern bushing and bearing they are still available for relatively cheap and are much better.
The struts cartridges ...Iwould skip any original equipment that you find NOS. All companies quit maing them around 1989-1991. That means anything you find will be that old, have a short life and have the same valving problems the stock ones had.
Have an adaptor made...I can e-mail you the dimensions and drawing...and then use audi 4000/VW quantum low pressure gas cartridges. They are about a 200% handling and ride upgrade and will slightly lower the front end...properly.
How was your front end lowered? If they cut the springs...find some new ones in the junk yard.
The centerlink had a defect in it. In wet areas the life span may be 3-5 years due to the bsuhing material (6/6 nylon). They cost too much to buy. I can tell you how to rebuild youre better than factory for about $20 in parts and 3 hours labor. It will be all bronze and steel after that.
Do a search on the bronze bushing for the idler arm. Several people have made one . I also have the dimensions if you need it.
Hold on for the radius arm donuts and the centering rings that go under them. In a month I will have a better solution for cheap....but basically I made the ones I have. DO NOT use urethane. The durometer would have to be custom or a lareg bump will break the mounting point. It cannot be over 60 duro.
The control arm bushings are best to be made in two pieces from delrin with a s steel bushing in the center. They are pretty inexpensive.
You will need to clean out the steering gear box and install a new seal. Pump if full of syntex superlube clear teflon lube and put a new bottom seal in it.
The bottom seal is unique...no longer available. But you can get one that is about 2mm smaller OD...if memory serves...and epoxy it in no problems.
Skip the brake line rubber hoses and get teflon/stainless. Same preice. Do the same for the rear. I beleive the rear are the same part number as for a late bus.
Skip turning the rotors. They are too thinwith normal wear to handle the heat. They don't have enough thickness to shed it.
You can get NEW zimmerman rotors at www.alloemparts.com for a decent price. Excellent quality German rotors.
You can also get good rotors from ESP brake in Dallas Texas 214-748-6386. Tell them I referreed you and that you need good quality rotors and very good quality brake pads to match. This guy used to work for a major friction material manufacturer and know the friction codes by heart. He will set you up.
Do not EVER use an organic pad. Only semi-metallic or full metallic. No 411/412 ever came with an organic pad. They will burn off in a day and ruin the rotors. Isay this because many discount auto parts places only list an organic pad.
There are many other sources for good brake parts. These are the same rotors, calipers and pads that went on 914 Porsche. Make sure you have teh correct chassis number. There is an early and late starting in August of 1972.
Get REALLY good quality wheel bearings. No chninese stuff. They won't last a month in the non-vented rotors. Ray
If its a 412...late...you are in good luck that you can use the late model assymettrical bolt pattern bushing and bearing they are still available for relatively cheap and are much better.
The struts cartridges ...Iwould skip any original equipment that you find NOS. All companies quit maing them around 1989-1991. That means anything you find will be that old, have a short life and have the same valving problems the stock ones had.
Have an adaptor made...I can e-mail you the dimensions and drawing...and then use audi 4000/VW quantum low pressure gas cartridges. They are about a 200% handling and ride upgrade and will slightly lower the front end...properly.
How was your front end lowered? If they cut the springs...find some new ones in the junk yard.
The centerlink had a defect in it. In wet areas the life span may be 3-5 years due to the bsuhing material (6/6 nylon). They cost too much to buy. I can tell you how to rebuild youre better than factory for about $20 in parts and 3 hours labor. It will be all bronze and steel after that.
Do a search on the bronze bushing for the idler arm. Several people have made one . I also have the dimensions if you need it.
Hold on for the radius arm donuts and the centering rings that go under them. In a month I will have a better solution for cheap....but basically I made the ones I have. DO NOT use urethane. The durometer would have to be custom or a lareg bump will break the mounting point. It cannot be over 60 duro.
The control arm bushings are best to be made in two pieces from delrin with a s steel bushing in the center. They are pretty inexpensive.
You will need to clean out the steering gear box and install a new seal. Pump if full of syntex superlube clear teflon lube and put a new bottom seal in it.
The bottom seal is unique...no longer available. But you can get one that is about 2mm smaller OD...if memory serves...and epoxy it in no problems.
Skip the brake line rubber hoses and get teflon/stainless. Same preice. Do the same for the rear. I beleive the rear are the same part number as for a late bus.
Skip turning the rotors. They are too thinwith normal wear to handle the heat. They don't have enough thickness to shed it.
You can get NEW zimmerman rotors at www.alloemparts.com for a decent price. Excellent quality German rotors.
You can also get good rotors from ESP brake in Dallas Texas 214-748-6386. Tell them I referreed you and that you need good quality rotors and very good quality brake pads to match. This guy used to work for a major friction material manufacturer and know the friction codes by heart. He will set you up.
Do not EVER use an organic pad. Only semi-metallic or full metallic. No 411/412 ever came with an organic pad. They will burn off in a day and ruin the rotors. Isay this because many discount auto parts places only list an organic pad.
There are many other sources for good brake parts. These are the same rotors, calipers and pads that went on 914 Porsche. Make sure you have teh correct chassis number. There is an early and late starting in August of 1972.
Get REALLY good quality wheel bearings. No chninese stuff. They won't last a month in the non-vented rotors. Ray
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DocLong
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:27 am
ray,
please email me all the dimensions you can for whatever you can!
If enough people NEED the parts you have dimensions for, I can have them made and I will pass them on ONLY FOR MY COST. I have a few friends in the machine shops locally here.
I found a new center link on ebay I think....IIRC it was $50?
Bearings will be TIMKIN or BECK ARNLEY...almost everything is coming from AUTOZONE.
Found rotors for $90 shipped, they are NOS.
My car was built in NOV of 72....so i'd say it's early.
Where can I get stainless/teflon brake hoses? I only need one, the PO replaced one of them...I found the other for $14....but again, those are rubber.
Ray, hook me up, let me know what I need to make.
DocLong@hotmail.com
please email me all the dimensions you can for whatever you can!
If enough people NEED the parts you have dimensions for, I can have them made and I will pass them on ONLY FOR MY COST. I have a few friends in the machine shops locally here.
I found a new center link on ebay I think....IIRC it was $50?
Bearings will be TIMKIN or BECK ARNLEY...almost everything is coming from AUTOZONE.
Found rotors for $90 shipped, they are NOS.
My car was built in NOV of 72....so i'd say it's early.
Where can I get stainless/teflon brake hoses? I only need one, the PO replaced one of them...I found the other for $14....but again, those are rubber.
Ray, hook me up, let me know what I need to make.
DocLong@hotmail.com
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wshawn
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:36 am
The front disc (rotors to you lot) had a change over from the smaller off set ones in 1972 for the '73 model here in the UK, using the part number 411 407 075 up to chassis 462 2 100 000 (ie July 72).
After that they went onto use the thicker pads that required a deeper offset on the disc and changed the part number too 411 407 075b. I think the pads went from 10mm to 14 mm thick.
I think if you will find that the earlier disc are the same as many as the Type 3s, the later ones were used on the late Porsche 914s.
After that they went onto use the thicker pads that required a deeper offset on the disc and changed the part number too 411 407 075b. I think the pads went from 10mm to 14 mm thick.
I think if you will find that the earlier disc are the same as many as the Type 3s, the later ones were used on the late Porsche 914s.
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albert
- Posts: 834
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:08 pm
front suspention
hy,,wshawn look in bughouse.com they sale différent rotor and pads,, and autohause,,for 914,,1.7 liter,, samething for pélican porsche parts ,,914---1.7 liters ,,and busdépot too for caliper ,,and brake parts ,,but attention there with her description,,read the informations with attention,, many model on the same line,, albert
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
My 412 was built in November of 72 as well. Thats makes yours a 73. That makes it late model for brakes and early model for strut bearing assembly.
You can tell what you have like this:
On 411 and early 412...and also early and late 914, you have a rotor that has asingle boss in the center where the grease cap snaps on. The rotor is thinner, the caliper and slot and pad are thinner.
On laste 412 and 914 your rotor has that same clean center boss where the grease cap snaps on...with a raised ring about 12mm high and 10mm thick around that center grease cap boss. It is thicker, has a larger caliper and thicker pad.
If for some reason your 412 has early brakes....you can find a junkyard with a 412 that has late brakes...and take the steering knuckle assembly and it bolts right up to 411 and early 412...allowing the use of later rotors and calipers. For very best results...go ahead and get the late 412 control arms too. The combination of late control arms and steering knuckles had better static castor from the factory. Thats an improvement in handling. The late steering knuckle is what contains teh offset for the late rotor.
The late rotors are superior to the early. Also...you will have a harder time getting early calipers that are decent.....and correct.
Th reason they went to the raised boss on the late rotor was to keep it from flexing when you cornered.
It started like this: Early type 3 discs had generally the same rotor as late type 3. But....on early type 3, the flexing of the rotors on turning caused pressure against one piston or another at an angle...causing the brake pistons to "@@@@" in the bore. It caused wear and sometimes leakage and sticking.
In the late type 3...they fixed this with a center pin inside of the piston bore that went into a bushing in the back of the piston.
For reasons unknown to me, they kept the late type 3 rotor for the early type 4. But they did not always seem to use the caliper with the centering pin.
On the late type 4 they made a stiffer rotor and caliper and used a better pad.
The early type 3 calipers with center pin are hard to finsd. They work best if you are using the early type 4 rotor without the stiffening boss.
To tell what you have for strut bushing/bearings...look at the bushing mount from the top. If you have three bolts that are equally spaced at 120* apart (symmetrical type)...that is early. They are like gold to find and even NOS will have hardened crack prone rubber. In my opinionb they were a slightly defective design. Not that they did not work well...just a short life.
All symmetrical bushings that have been on a car for more than thre years...are defective...period. The only correct way to see what is wrong with them...is to take the strut assembly out and aprt and remove teh bump stop assembly so you can see what you are seeing. Them reassemble without bump stop. Put the car up on blcoks...high so the weight of the suspension pulls the strut out to full extension.
Now....look closely at the rubber of the bump stop from underneath. You can now see the cracks and seperations of the bonded rubber that do not show from above. These grealy affect centering and operation of the strut.
Use late model 412 assymmetrical strut mounts. You will have to do some grinding on teh center hole in each strut tower and add probably two new hole locations. This will all be covered up...if you also later add a strut brace in the trunk
.
Ray
You can tell what you have like this:
On 411 and early 412...and also early and late 914, you have a rotor that has asingle boss in the center where the grease cap snaps on. The rotor is thinner, the caliper and slot and pad are thinner.
On laste 412 and 914 your rotor has that same clean center boss where the grease cap snaps on...with a raised ring about 12mm high and 10mm thick around that center grease cap boss. It is thicker, has a larger caliper and thicker pad.
If for some reason your 412 has early brakes....you can find a junkyard with a 412 that has late brakes...and take the steering knuckle assembly and it bolts right up to 411 and early 412...allowing the use of later rotors and calipers. For very best results...go ahead and get the late 412 control arms too. The combination of late control arms and steering knuckles had better static castor from the factory. Thats an improvement in handling. The late steering knuckle is what contains teh offset for the late rotor.
The late rotors are superior to the early. Also...you will have a harder time getting early calipers that are decent.....and correct.
Th reason they went to the raised boss on the late rotor was to keep it from flexing when you cornered.
It started like this: Early type 3 discs had generally the same rotor as late type 3. But....on early type 3, the flexing of the rotors on turning caused pressure against one piston or another at an angle...causing the brake pistons to "@@@@" in the bore. It caused wear and sometimes leakage and sticking.
In the late type 3...they fixed this with a center pin inside of the piston bore that went into a bushing in the back of the piston.
For reasons unknown to me, they kept the late type 3 rotor for the early type 4. But they did not always seem to use the caliper with the centering pin.
On the late type 4 they made a stiffer rotor and caliper and used a better pad.
The early type 3 calipers with center pin are hard to finsd. They work best if you are using the early type 4 rotor without the stiffening boss.
To tell what you have for strut bushing/bearings...look at the bushing mount from the top. If you have three bolts that are equally spaced at 120* apart (symmetrical type)...that is early. They are like gold to find and even NOS will have hardened crack prone rubber. In my opinionb they were a slightly defective design. Not that they did not work well...just a short life.
All symmetrical bushings that have been on a car for more than thre years...are defective...period. The only correct way to see what is wrong with them...is to take the strut assembly out and aprt and remove teh bump stop assembly so you can see what you are seeing. Them reassemble without bump stop. Put the car up on blcoks...high so the weight of the suspension pulls the strut out to full extension.
Now....look closely at the rubber of the bump stop from underneath. You can now see the cracks and seperations of the bonded rubber that do not show from above. These grealy affect centering and operation of the strut.
Use late model 412 assymmetrical strut mounts. You will have to do some grinding on teh center hole in each strut tower and add probably two new hole locations. This will all be covered up...if you also later add a strut brace in the trunk
.Ray
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wshawn
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:36 am
Hi Albert,
I had loads of problems several months back trying to track down the correct pads and disc for mine, eventually I was lucky and a guy near me had some NOS disc and another supplier found a guy who had complete NOS calipers with pads he did me a good price on.
Should be OK for a while now then.
I had loads of problems several months back trying to track down the correct pads and disc for mine, eventually I was lucky and a guy near me had some NOS disc and another supplier found a guy who had complete NOS calipers with pads he did me a good price on.
Should be OK for a while now then.