Ok,
I am buying the following:
ball joints
tie rod ends
wheel bearings
CV boots
center link
steering box re-seal kit (if I can find it online again.)
How involved is the installation?
Do the ball joints bolt on?
Wheel bearings....are they a press off press on ordeal?
suspension again....quick time question.
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wshawn
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:36 am
Ball joints are bolt on and off, will probably need a ball joint splitter as well though(?)
Wheel bearings for the front are carried in the disc so I'm guessing they are the same as a Beetles to change, again pretty straight forward.
Tie rods again a ball joint splitter is required unless you have perfected the art of striking the joints to split them, personally I haven't tried that so can't vouch for how it works.
The other bits I don't know about but if you have managed the other bits OK then I would have thought they can't be that hard...although don't know about the steering box?
Good luck
Wheel bearings for the front are carried in the disc so I'm guessing they are the same as a Beetles to change, again pretty straight forward.
Tie rods again a ball joint splitter is required unless you have perfected the art of striking the joints to split them, personally I haven't tried that so can't vouch for how it works.
The other bits I don't know about but if you have managed the other bits OK then I would have thought they can't be that hard...although don't know about the steering box?
Good luck
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
About the balljoints....Because they are so rare....and we have not yet found a solution for using something different and newer (i'm not far off)....do not use a fork or splitter to remove the ball joints. Use a hammer and a two arm press. The fork always destroys the ball joint by denting the flange on teh outside. Its quite possible that the ball joints are still serviceable and could use a cleaning, greasing and new dust boot. That is all doale.
You should still get and install new ball joints NOW while you can find them....but an undamaged but lightly worn and re-sealed old balljoint may be the only emergency spare you will ever have...so don't destroy them while removing them.
If you can't find a centerlink...don't worry. I can send you pictures on how to rebuild one better than stock...in about 3 hours...for about $20 in parts.
Wheel bearings are just like bug and tyoe 3. They press into teh rotor. Get the highest quality you can find. German, Japanese, American, Mexican, eastern Europe...in that order. Do not buy the Indian (for the time being there have been some issues) and skip the Chinese brands. There have been real issues with those.
You simply use a brass drift to drive out the old races. Then....take a dremel tool or bench grinder to the old races and grind the outside so they are about .002-.005" smaller. Along with a couple blcoks of wood...a hand sledge and a brassdrift...you can now use the old races as mandrels to drive in the new races. Throw those in your tool bag. They make great tools. I can change out bearing races on a rotor in about 5 minutes or less like this.
There is no steering box reseal kit. The seal is unique and has never been available outside a VW dealer...and in my 30 years of working exclusivley on 411/412...I have never been able to get a new one from anywhere.
No big deal.
You can take the top bolts loose on the steering box...press off the pitman arm...use something that cuts oil heavily....like Berrymans B-12...and spend a few hours rinsing every bit of grease and oil out of the box. The top will not come all the way off unless you remove the guts from the gearbox...DO NOT DO THAT!
It is more complex than you think and there are three adjustments. We will only be doing one because thats all we have specs for. If you drop out the recirculating balls...you may never get it back together again.
The top lid lifts up partially and partly swings out of the way so you can clean.
The steering box used a thickened oil similar to a browning sulphur based gearbox oil. What I do....is once its clean...then then dry the box completely. Leaving it completly dry of oils. Put the lid back on.
Pry out the old oil seal. It has the size dimensions molded onto it. If memory serves, you can find a seal of the correct thickness and ID...but either too small or large on OD.
Get the one that is too small on the OD.
Next In the corners of the top of the gearbox...you will notice several plastic plugs. Pry one out. It will crack and you will need to find a new plug to replace it. Almost forgot...with the lid partially off...before you re-install it...tap one of these holes. This way you can put in a button head bolt as a plug.
This is also where you will be threading in a grease fitting temporarily.
You will be using a grease instead of an oil. Because of this...the seal becomes less critical.
let me explain. You will be using one specific grease only. This is Superlube, synthetic multi-purpose grease. Its an NLG-2 with a range of
-40 to 450F. It is clear like vaseline and very soft and creamy. It stays teh same consistancy down to 40 below. It does not get stiff. Its pure synthetic and actually food grade. It runs about $10-12 for a grease gun tube.
What you want to do is pump the box full....while working it back and forth to get it packed into the bearings. The ideal way to do this....is to put the steering box into a box or a thick bag with the grease hose connected and put it under a vacuum with about 15" hg. The object is to totally fill every void with grease. It needs no air on the inside. This way...it simply pumps grease back and forth and through the gears and bearings everytime the steering wheel is turned.. You can do it without vacuum....but it takes a while. You just keep pump and collecting what comes out the seal area by the shaft...and putting back into the grease gun with a putty knife. This is messy and slow but....once you have probably 2/3 of that entire cartridge in there...and you KNOW its in there and not on the floor, the outside or in rags....you will be fine.
Plug the top....adjust the top screw and locknut like the book says. Wipe and solvent clean the ledge area where the seal goes below. Make sure its squeeky clean. Use Q-tips and Berrymans to get all of the grease away. Pack the lips of the seal whose OD is too small...with grease . Slip it on. Mix up some JB-weld....quick set....and lightly and smoothly fill the outside egde area between seal and gearbox. let it dry. Put the pitman arm and nut back on.
lastly....after doing the main pinion adjustment I mentioned. Center the pitman arm. Mark the cap on the big locknut of the worn gear at the other end. Crack it loose. Put the center adjusting cap back on the mark where it was. Turn it inward lightly. If it can't be turned inward at all and is in fact in contact with the ball bearing....turn it outward. If it is easy to turn outward...that means its right up against the balls...but has no preload at all. So turn it back to the mark....and turn it about 1/16" past the mark. Mark That spot and lock the lock nut making sure you don't move the adjustment.
Done! The box will not drip, leak, get sticky...or wear out now.
You also need to replace your idler arm bushing or it will just destroy the new centerlink. Also...take a look at your radius arm donuts and teh plastic centering rings between them. Ray
You should still get and install new ball joints NOW while you can find them....but an undamaged but lightly worn and re-sealed old balljoint may be the only emergency spare you will ever have...so don't destroy them while removing them.
If you can't find a centerlink...don't worry. I can send you pictures on how to rebuild one better than stock...in about 3 hours...for about $20 in parts.
Wheel bearings are just like bug and tyoe 3. They press into teh rotor. Get the highest quality you can find. German, Japanese, American, Mexican, eastern Europe...in that order. Do not buy the Indian (for the time being there have been some issues) and skip the Chinese brands. There have been real issues with those.
You simply use a brass drift to drive out the old races. Then....take a dremel tool or bench grinder to the old races and grind the outside so they are about .002-.005" smaller. Along with a couple blcoks of wood...a hand sledge and a brassdrift...you can now use the old races as mandrels to drive in the new races. Throw those in your tool bag. They make great tools. I can change out bearing races on a rotor in about 5 minutes or less like this.
There is no steering box reseal kit. The seal is unique and has never been available outside a VW dealer...and in my 30 years of working exclusivley on 411/412...I have never been able to get a new one from anywhere.
No big deal.
You can take the top bolts loose on the steering box...press off the pitman arm...use something that cuts oil heavily....like Berrymans B-12...and spend a few hours rinsing every bit of grease and oil out of the box. The top will not come all the way off unless you remove the guts from the gearbox...DO NOT DO THAT!
It is more complex than you think and there are three adjustments. We will only be doing one because thats all we have specs for. If you drop out the recirculating balls...you may never get it back together again.
The top lid lifts up partially and partly swings out of the way so you can clean.
The steering box used a thickened oil similar to a browning sulphur based gearbox oil. What I do....is once its clean...then then dry the box completely. Leaving it completly dry of oils. Put the lid back on.
Pry out the old oil seal. It has the size dimensions molded onto it. If memory serves, you can find a seal of the correct thickness and ID...but either too small or large on OD.
Get the one that is too small on the OD.
Next In the corners of the top of the gearbox...you will notice several plastic plugs. Pry one out. It will crack and you will need to find a new plug to replace it. Almost forgot...with the lid partially off...before you re-install it...tap one of these holes. This way you can put in a button head bolt as a plug.
This is also where you will be threading in a grease fitting temporarily.
You will be using a grease instead of an oil. Because of this...the seal becomes less critical.
let me explain. You will be using one specific grease only. This is Superlube, synthetic multi-purpose grease. Its an NLG-2 with a range of
-40 to 450F. It is clear like vaseline and very soft and creamy. It stays teh same consistancy down to 40 below. It does not get stiff. Its pure synthetic and actually food grade. It runs about $10-12 for a grease gun tube.
What you want to do is pump the box full....while working it back and forth to get it packed into the bearings. The ideal way to do this....is to put the steering box into a box or a thick bag with the grease hose connected and put it under a vacuum with about 15" hg. The object is to totally fill every void with grease. It needs no air on the inside. This way...it simply pumps grease back and forth and through the gears and bearings everytime the steering wheel is turned.. You can do it without vacuum....but it takes a while. You just keep pump and collecting what comes out the seal area by the shaft...and putting back into the grease gun with a putty knife. This is messy and slow but....once you have probably 2/3 of that entire cartridge in there...and you KNOW its in there and not on the floor, the outside or in rags....you will be fine.
Plug the top....adjust the top screw and locknut like the book says. Wipe and solvent clean the ledge area where the seal goes below. Make sure its squeeky clean. Use Q-tips and Berrymans to get all of the grease away. Pack the lips of the seal whose OD is too small...with grease . Slip it on. Mix up some JB-weld....quick set....and lightly and smoothly fill the outside egde area between seal and gearbox. let it dry. Put the pitman arm and nut back on.
lastly....after doing the main pinion adjustment I mentioned. Center the pitman arm. Mark the cap on the big locknut of the worn gear at the other end. Crack it loose. Put the center adjusting cap back on the mark where it was. Turn it inward lightly. If it can't be turned inward at all and is in fact in contact with the ball bearing....turn it outward. If it is easy to turn outward...that means its right up against the balls...but has no preload at all. So turn it back to the mark....and turn it about 1/16" past the mark. Mark That spot and lock the lock nut making sure you don't move the adjustment.
Done! The box will not drip, leak, get sticky...or wear out now.
You also need to replace your idler arm bushing or it will just destroy the new centerlink. Also...take a look at your radius arm donuts and teh plastic centering rings between them. Ray
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
The control arm bushings should be made out of delrin. Two identical pieces for each side with a flange. Put a simple bronze flatwasher on each end to keep from beating up the delrin. Either use the original inner steel tubes or you can buy then from palces like mcmaster carr or suspension shops.
In a very bad pinch..you can use front control arm bushings from an early rabbit...like mid 80's. Problem is they are a hair short...and require shims...and far too soft. If you can find Urethane bushings for rabbit...they are far better....but not as good as delrin. The effort to put them in and shim them is not worth it. I would have delrin ones made. You will never replace them again.
I will have an example in about three weeks I can post of what to do for a combination of bronze ball, delrin and urethane for teh donuts. For now..use the stock ones. Ray
In a very bad pinch..you can use front control arm bushings from an early rabbit...like mid 80's. Problem is they are a hair short...and require shims...and far too soft. If you can find Urethane bushings for rabbit...they are far better....but not as good as delrin. The effort to put them in and shim them is not worth it. I would have delrin ones made. You will never replace them again.
I will have an example in about three weeks I can post of what to do for a combination of bronze ball, delrin and urethane for teh donuts. For now..use the stock ones. Ray
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Yep...I'm betting not also. The history of Autozone and type 4 parts is rather rich for me. I don't know how mant times I fell for it. They would rattle off a part #...sometimes original...sometimes an internal derivative part #....and Iwould lay out cash and wait. Totally wrong parts every time. Not once could they get a brake part, engine part or suspension part that they said they could. It has been 8-10 years since Ifell for it. They may have improved. Who knows? Ray
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
I bit and ordered a set to see what they had, the pictures were right for the stamped metal style. I don't really need a set as I have good used ones installed on my 411 that have new boots, plus I have a spare set of NOS OEM's sitting on the shelf. I will let people know what if anything shows up at the door.
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
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jasle
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:47 pm
The striking method is all I use. Worked my way through college doing suspensions/alignments. I have a pickle fork aka...tie rod remover but never use it because it tears the boot. many times you need to take off the tie rod without messing up the boots.wshawn wrote: Tie rods again a ball joint splitter is required unless you have perfected the art of striking the joints to split them, personally I haven't tried that so can't vouch for how it works.
Good luck
you take a 2lbs sledge and strike the joint at a 90degree angle to the tie rod end. 2 good whacks and the joint falls right out. works on even the most nasty tie rod ends. use same method for taking the spindle out of the ball joints.
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
Just got an email from Autozone. They say that the balljoints are in the mail and should arrive Wednesday. We will know then whether they really have T4 ball joints or not.wildthings wrote:I contacted Autozone today to see where my order which was placed over a week ago is. Unable to get any kind of confirmation thru their website. The order number they gave me can not be confirmed nor do they say they have any record of my email address. Not looking good at this point.
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wshawn
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:36 am
wildthings wrote:Just got an email from Autozone. They say that the balljoints are in the mail and should arrive Wednesday. We will know then whether they really have T4 ball joints or not.wildthings wrote:I contacted Autozone today to see where my order which was placed over a week ago is. Unable to get any kind of confirmation thru their website. The order number they gave me can not be confirmed nor do they say they have any record of my email address. Not looking good at this point.
OOoooh!! The suspense
But lucky me I bought a NOS pair on flea bay a little while ago
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
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DocLong
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:27 am
I have tried and tried to get them to take my order. They wont. I've e-mailed and got transfered to an outside customer service company....and they have dont nothing but jack me around. Their site won't take my credit card....but every other site on the internet will. I've spent over 10k in the last 7 months on three different cars....(all vw's BTW....89 cabriolet, my 412, and an 87 Wolfsburg Coupe.) They are the only site that wont accept my card!
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11906
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am