Can't find KYB rear shocks in the UK but have found sax ones

[wshawn]

I've been looking for some KYB gas-a-just front shocks from the Ford vans, as covered in previous post on this forum, for the rear end of my 412 all week and have scored a big fat zero on them in the UK.

However, I have found a company that have some heavy duty sax gas front shocks for both the 1/2 and 3/4 ton Econoline vans.

Would these be suitable for my 412 before I part with my cash?

I'm assuming that if they are for a the same vehicle as the KYB shocks then they should be of an equal or near equal performance as far as the valving, fit and functionality of them or am I being a tad naive.



Edit: That should be sachs not sax...sorry if that confused anyone

[albert]

hy,,wshawn,, you have 2 things witch the 412,, they are différent for the wagon and the 4 doors,,if you have original shock on your 412 look in your région if you d,t can find a shop for to remain your old shock,, beefore to buy the new set ,, take one old shock from your 412 and you can go to your car part for to buy your new sash shock ( sash or bogee are the same cie ) witch your old shock the seller can geeve you the good model,, mr ray ,,said beefore on this forum ,the ,kyb for ford 1%2 tons are perfect for the 412 wagon ,, but the fixing bolt dimention on the botthom is différent ,, albert

[wshawn]

Thanks albert, my Variant has some NOS rear oil filled boge ones fitted at the moment that I put on a few months ago. I assumed that I had fitted the correct ones (hard to tell with so much conflicting info and a general lack of info on these cars)but now I think I would have been better served looking for some gas ones instead. I did not realise that Boge and Sachs were one and the same company, learn something new every day!

The rear end of my car is looking tired and hangs down so was looking for some good quality gas shocks to give it a bit of a lift to compliment all the work that I am currently having done on the front end. I could also do with the extra stiffness/strength they offer for towing our caravan and luggage when we go away.

[raygreenwood]

For the rear of the variant...there were never oil filled ones. At least on this continent...all the variants came with gas shocks from the factory. Though they list a replacement oil part # that fits, it is actually the part from the sedan.

If youcan find any brand of gas shock that fits the rear of teh variant...use it. The Boge shocks will be short lived. I have a brand new pair of them that have never seen teh light of day that I will not use because they just cannot control teh weight of tehrear of teh variant. I have tried a set already years ago. Very short life.

Its worth it to remember. Its not just the weight on the rear of type 4's. Its where the shock is located with reference to the length of the trailing arm. There is a huge amount of leverage here. My two door made short work of a pair of rancho rs 9000 five way adjustables a few years ago...that were made for offroad in the rear of a 1 ton pick-up.

The front end....with the mods I have made...its critical to use the GR-2's....or at least a low pressure semi-oil and gas strut because ....and you will find this out....the oil/gas mix is much much stiffer than factory (and very well matched). The high pressure gas wikll break things.

Does that mean that another brand of low pressure gas shock for the front end would no do as well? I have no idea.
Knowing how easily a set with too high of a gas pressure damages the front supsension components....I never wanted to risk much more in testing other brands knowing I had already found a readily available brand that worked.

The rear is a different story. You just need much better damping than the original oils. The KYB gas-a-justs do quite well.

See if you can find bilsteins or Monroe in high pressure gas listed for the 1/2 ton or 1 ton fords. Those should do. Ray

[raygreenwood]

A note....Albert is correct that you can match your shock dimension up to a great many out there that will fit. However...my note about the RS 9000's that I slaughtered is this........
The force/leverage on the rear of the 411/412 is so great that if the valving is not close to what you need....you will ruin the shock very quickly.

Bear in mind....the original shocks in KYB for the rear of the 411/412.....are the same as the one from the FRONT end of 1/2 ton package van....with a 700lb power train!!! .

The difference is that the Ford econoline has very short A-arms....and very heavy suspension springs. The rate or frequency....at which the front end bounces on the van is not very "fast"....but the valving on tehse shocks is stiff to arrest motion.
Thats all the shocks are is damping....and with the gas pressure, they help keep the springs extended. The shocks cannot be an active part of compression load in either the 411/412 or the econoline van. Then can be extenders...to keep the spring extended.....but otherwise they are dampers to keep the velocity of the compression of the spring controlled so they do not bottom out.

Whatever shocks you find that fit....bear in mind that they should probably come from the front of something with large springs and a heavy drivetrain. Also...length is crucial. They must not overall be much longer or any shorter than the stock ones. Ray

[wshawn]

Well, I have found some Sachs gas shocks that fit the front 3/4 ton Ford Econoline van, '75-'91.

They retailed at just over £60 for the pair and as they are the only gas ones I have found for the Econoline in the UK they seem worth a try. I would have preferered the KYB ones that are tried and tested by you guys in the States but alas I shall have to settle with what I can find and afford here in the rather wet UK at the moment.

On a good note my car will back together this afternoon and the mechanic is hoping to take it to one of the of the few places around here with the equipment to check the all the front end geometry (not just the tracking which is about all the majority of tyre fitters do now), then road test the car and I'll have it back in time for the trip up to Santa Pod at the weekend for VW Action.

[raygreenwood]

Here are some european part numbers for you to start crossmatching with.

The Monroe company goes through a company known as "TENECO" in Europe.

Their part numbers for shocks for the front of Ford E-series vans are these:
65-79 F-100/F-150 and F-250 (1 ton and 3/4 ton) is part # 34900
For 70-79 F250 and 67-79 F-350 Part # 34900

E-series 1/2 ton is part # 34899 (1975-91)

Ford ranger pick-up truck 4X2 and 4X4 (1983-9/84) light duty uses Part # 34729 and/or part # 34899.

So....part #'s 34729, 24899 and 34900 should bolt up. I do not know if these are gas or oil...but the 34899 should be the Monroe "gas magnum". It is the the same as US part # for gas magnum for the E-series van.

The Monroe sensatrac part # for that same shock configuration is #37088
The sensa-trac load adjustable is 58275

The monroe-matic (oil I think) is 32150.

These should give you a start.

I would look at sachs gas also. Ray

[wshawn]

Thanks for taking time to fish out those part numbers Ray.

I have just placed an order for the sachs gas 3/4 ton econoline shocks for delivery tomorrow, so will update on their fit and performance when I can.

[wshawn]

New shocks just arrived.

The extended length of them is right as is the compressed length when compared next to one of the oil filled boge shocks...however the big difference is pretty obvious, I'm assuming this would not affect the way they work??? The lad I ordered them from insisted they are the front shocks for the 3/4 ton Ford Econoline van '75-'91...



Only one way to find out if they are any good though and that is to try them out...would the rubbers from the top of the old shocks (only fitted for a short time) be sufficient to use as the spacers required for the lower bush?

[raygreenwood]

Actually side loading on te hbottom will not only fry rubber spacers on teh bottom in about 6 blocks...it will misalign the shock enough to bend the rod.....on the first decent bump. . Been there...broke that!

Go to the hardware store, get some simple pipe nipple and cut them to length to make spacers...or....and this is actually harder to install than it sounds...use stacks of washers.

For boots on the top.....a steering rack boot from a rabbit or golf works well. Or any aftermarket "rubber" boot kit....or the plastic dust boots from the front end of old beetle shocks. Ray

[wshawn]

Thanks Ray, I'll forget the rubber bushes then and see what washers or pipe bits I have hiding in my shed that will surfice, as for dust boots for the top I know I have a set of old bug shocks in there as well!