Did a man from Milwaukee turn the 411 into the 412??

Discuss with fans and owners of the most luxurious aircooled sedan/wagon that VW ever made, the VW 411/412. Official forum of Tom's Type 4 Corner.
412s2
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Did a man from Milwaukee turn the 411 into the 412??

Post by 412s2 »

I was always under the impression that it was former VW CEO and hobby stylist Rudolf Leiding that turned the 411 into the 412 and that is why the 412, Brazilian Type 3, SP2 and Brasilia all have what is commonly known as the "Leiding Nose"

Then, killing some time sheltering from the 70mph wind and rain blowing in off the Atlantic, I came across this on the internet: http://forums.thecarlounge.net/zerothread?id=4036361
vwlarry wrote: Trivia question: What do the Volkswagen Type 4 and the Studebaker Hawk have in common?

Answer: When both Studebaker, in 1961, and later Volkswagen, in 1970, needed to consult an outside designer for help in "facelifting" a moribund model in their lineup, they both went to the famed designer of thousands of products of all kinds, Brooks Stevens of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The Studebaker Hawk was, by the early sixties, far past its "sell by" date when it came to its styling, which dated back to 1953's Starliner, and had been progressively polluted with tailfins, buckets of chrome doodads, and other tinsel, which made the car look terribly dated, and sales were almost non-existent. Brooks Stevens took the assignment to take the old-hat Hawk, along with about $50,000 in Studebaker's dwindling cash, and make something sellable out of it. He succeeded wildly. The result was the 1962 Gran Turismo Hawk, which is considered one of the best "turnaround stories" in modern automotive history. From a chrome-encrusted and tailfinned relic, Stevens, on a shoestring budget, created a very "European" looking and elegant sports coupe that saw sales rise substantially in the next few years. It's considered a modern classic today, and a "bookend" to the Starliner, since it began the model's career as a beauty, and the GT Hawk ended it 11 years later, in 1964.
1962 Gran Turismo Hawk, by Brooks Stevens:
Image
In similar fashion, Volkswagen, which had the "ugly duckling" Type 4, in its first iteration, selling somewhat sluggishly, due in no small measure to its rather misshapen "face" that few seemed to warm-up to, commissioned Brooks Stevens to do something with the car to add some appeal. The 412, with its somewhat Chevrolet Corvair-inspired front-end, was the result. It was still not "beautiful" by any means, but it did "sharpen-up" the car's appearance greatly, and the facelift helped sales of the model during a time when VW's rear-engine/aircooled era was quickly winding down. I've always felt that Stevens did a terrific job with the 412's styling myself, and if the Squareback 412 had been available with a manual gearbox in '73 (automatic only) I would have purchased one myself (they look especially sharp in orange IMO).
1974 412 Squareback:
Image
Two "sow's ears" turned into "silk purses" by the talented hand of a great designer.
Can anyone else substantiate these claims?
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Lars S
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Post by Lars S »

Brooks Stevens may have been involved in the re-shaping of the 411.

The official homepage
http://www.brooksstevenshistory.com/home.html

(under "industry firsts.." and "70's") lists the 411-412 as one of his objects.

However they claim that the 412 was "the first front engine, water cooled..." so I dont know their reliability...


Lars S
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Wally
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Re: Did a man from Milwaukee turn the 411 into the 412??

Post by Wally »

Great story. Don't know if its correct, but he makes a good case imo.
412s2 wrote: (they look especially sharp in orange IMO).
1974 412 Squareback:
Image
In those exhibition lights, it could as well be Marino Gelb (=yellow, not orange) like mine but I agree, its a great color either way!

Thanks for posting this! I almost like the Variant again because of this pic :wink:
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412s2
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Post by 412s2 »

I Googled Brooks Stevens and Volkswagen and although I found some pages that say he did work for VW, most pages linking the two refer to Volkswagen's lampooning of 'built in obsolescence'; of which Brooks Stevens was a notable proponent.
Jeremy Myerson wrote: Industrial Design Strength
Exactly 50 years ago, the industrial designer Brooks Stevens stood up at a meeting of advertising agency executives in Minneapolis and coined the phrase "planned obsolescence". It was a catchphrase that would define an era of annual model changes on the production line and instantly transport Stevens, as if in one of his own tear-drop-shaped trains or boats, to the forefront of the debate about morality and the mass market in mid-20th century America.

Up until that point, the consultant responsible for the Steam-o-matic clothes iron (1940), Coolerator refrigerator (1948) and Harley Davidson Hydra-glide motor-cycle (1949) had been energetically and inoffensively building a successful design practice as a member of the industrial elite in his native Milwaukee.
But in 1954, Stevens' candid talk of "instilling in the buyer the desire to own something a little newer, a little better, a little sooner than is necessary" offended a great many people nationally, who saw his strategy as sinister and exploitative. As Glenn Adamson, author of this handsome and comprehensive survey of his work, suggests: "Stevens discovered quite by accident that the easiest way to become famous was to become infamous."

Among his critics was Vance Packard, whose books The Hidden Persuaders and The Waste Makers would attack Stevens for promoting two different types of planned obsolescence - "functional obsolescence", in which objects were intentionally designed to wear out, and "psychological obsolescence", in which last year's model was deliberately made to look out-dated in the manipulated mind of the consumer.

None of this appeared to bother the self-confident Stevens, who was steeped in free-market conservatism and defended planned obsolescence as an engine of economic growth essential to the survival of democracy. During the rhetoric of the Cold War, he even described one of his own vehicle designs as a "bullwark against communism".

But within a few years Stevens himself was looking out of date. His arguments were weakened by the success of companies such as Volkswagen, which flatly contradicted him in one 1959 advertisement by saying: "We do not believe in planned obsolescence." By 1968, Fortune magazine was commenting on "the decline of industrial designers", and by 1970 Stevens was clinically depressed. He survived, of course, but by the 1970s, his best days were over and his flashy icons of Americana looked an anachronism.
The Brazilian Type 3 and the SP2 (with the 'Leiding Nose') seem to predate the 412 and I doubt that both the Brazilian designers and Brooks Stevens came up with two so similar designs independently. I imagine Brooks Stevens' design company was commissioned to turn the 411 into the 412, but were maybe asked to make the front end look similar to the Brazilian models?

The design of the SP2 appears to date back to 1969 and is generally credited to Senor Schiemann and Rudolf Leiding, however I found a comment by the Brazilian car designer Ari Rocha on a Brazilian website that says:
Ari Rocha (translated from Portuguese!) wrote:As we are celebrating 35 years of SP-1/SP-2, one of the examples is the flagship projects of authorship of this car, the Brasilia and Gol. Often attributed to Senor Schiemann, who was responsible for the Engineering Department, or in some publications even mentioning how the author Rudolph Leiding, president of the company. They actually signed the documents (by virtue of their positions), but were not responsible for the authorship of the projects. Conduct further research will identify who the real perpetrators were members of the team of Design (at the time called 'Style'), Led by Marcio Piancastelli and composed by José Vicente 'Jota' Martins and Jorge Oba. They are also authors of the design of the 'Gol', often cited as being of G. Giuggiaro. We must bear in mind that the author, mujitas often serves as the argument for the payment of 'royalties', then anything can happen ...


I think we can thank the Brazilians Marcio Piancastelli, José Vicente 'Jota' Martins, and Jorge Oba for inspiring the nose of the VW412. :shock:

Further reading:
Interview with Marcio Piancastelli (translated from Portuguese)
History of the Brasilia
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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood »

The Brasilia did not predate the 412. The Brasilia is listed as a 1973 model year. That means at best...it probably came out in August of 1972....the exact same time the 412 debuted. But...bear in mind that even back then you are looking at at least a 2 year design cycle. I'm betting they were working on the front end design of the 412 in 1971.....so i would not think it is definitive that the 412 front end was of Brazilian manufacture. Ray
412s2
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Post by 412s2 »

Hi Ray, I didn't say the Brasilia predated the 412...

I did say the Brazilian Type 3 and SP2 predated the 412, as far as I can tell the Brazilian Type 3 with the 412esque nose was launched as a 1972 model (August 1971? I don't know :? ) and the SP2 was first presented at a German Industrial fair in Sao Paulo March 1971.

Here's where I get my info...

History of Brazilian VWs

Film star

Video of a '72 brazilian type 3 restoration

Having wrote all that yesterday, I have to say all the VWs have a similar front end to the 1965 Corvair...
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